I'm not saying women shouldn't work with their husbands to make this more equitable. But I don't see how it is a woman's fault if her husband is unwilling to appreciate or do emotional labor. If he is the one neglecting the duty, it's his fault. Just like if she is failing at some aspect of their relationship even though he is trying to work with her to get better at it, that's on her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

Also, the divided energy of having to build awareness in a spouse while parenting the children and working...! Come on. It's too much.

It's like "allowing" for sexism, racism, or whatnot. I didn't "allow for any of this. It's what we're faced with.

You tolerate and allow this to continue after you're faced with it. It is a choice. Once you make your choices, you don't get to blame others for them.

Well, THAT'S bullshit. The blame lies with the person doing the wrong, not the person who is wronged. That's like saying "hey you let that person do that racist/sexist thing to you, what's wrong with you?"

Wake up!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

Also, the divided energy of having to build awareness in a spouse while parenting the children and working...! Come on. It's too much.

It's like "allowing" for sexism, racism, or whatnot. I didn't "allow for any of this. It's what we're faced with.

You tolerate and allow this to continue after you're faced with it. It is a choice. Once you make your choices, you don't get to blame others for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

Also, the divided energy of having to build awareness in a spouse while parenting the children and working...! Come on. It's too much.

It's like "allowing" for sexism, racism, or whatnot. I didn't "allow for any of this. It's what we're faced with.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the whole goal of men (or most men) to work their way up the corporate ladder so that everyone else is doing the work and they are getting paid big bucks to do very little or something they enjoy like business travel? It's the same in marriage. Men want to sit around feeling entitled to having their meals cooked, housed cleaned, and kids taken care of without them having to do a whole lot. Look at Thanksgiving, for instance. Football games are coincidentally on while women are the ones slaving in the kitchen. I agree with the PPs that you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. Their whole goal is to not have to do stuff that they should and they don't care if it's right or wrong. It's not like there is an abundant supply of cooperative men that help out, so you can't blame it on women choosing badly. Even if women are better at emotional tasks, the least the husbands could do is appreciate it. Some men will never do that because it would be putting their wives in a one up position.

Yes, it's all a big conspiracy!

Time and time again: Nobody makes you slave away in the kitchen. Thanksgiving or any other day. You choose to go out of the way to please the crowd, because, let's face, you want to show your family and friends how well off you are. But the reality is you don't have to put on a grand facade to brag about your perfect life or for any other reason.

Anonymous wrote:Look at all the chiding on this thread about "you can't change the person you married, they are what they are, you should have married better." It's hard to get someone to do something they don't want to do, even if it's the fair thing. And a problem for many of us is this lack of participation by our husbands wasn't clear until we had kids because our husbands did PLENTY of emotional labor and seeing to our needs while they were wooing us.

But this doesn't change the fact that "you can't change the person you married, they are what they are." It's a fact, and it's up to you what you do with it.

Isn't the whole goal of men (or most men) to work their way up the corporate ladder so that everyone else is doing the work and they are getting paid big bucks to do very little or something they enjoy like business travel? It's the same in marriage. Men want to sit around feeling entitled to having their meals cooked, housed cleaned, and kids taken care of without them having to do a whole lot. Look at Thanksgiving, for instance. Football games are coincidentally on while women are the ones slaving in the kitchen. I agree with the PPs that you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. Their whole goal is to not have to do stuff that they should and they don't care if it's right or wrong. It's not like there is an abundant supply of cooperative men that help out, so you can't blame it on women choosing badly. Even if women are better at emotional tasks, the least the husbands could do is appreciate it. Some men will never do that because it would be putting their wives in a one up position.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

After we divorced I set up everyone's birthday in my smart-phone calendar and my smart phone does my Emotional Labor for me now, telling me when to send birthday cards. Much cheaper and more efficient.

Why did you make your wife keep track of all the birthdays until you got divorced? Why didn't you do that for yourself since you are a fully grown adult man with a brain and your own smartphone? How come DIVORCE was the impetus you needed to take that shit off your wife's To Do list?

(PS: women use smartphone calendars, too. We are not stupid.)

+1. understand that you warned your wife about your mother, but why were you letting your wife attend to all those other relationships for you? What kind of person would allow others to take on burdens that tjey should be shouldering themselves?

For me, this is a kind of plantation-master mentality - the guy who believes that others should be performing free labor for him, or to put it in the best possible light - is willing to accept the inpaid labor of others even if he doesn't believe he is entitled to it.

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

After we divorced I set up everyone's birthday in my smart-phone calendar and my smart phone does my Emotional Labor for me now, telling me when to send birthday cards. Much cheaper and more efficient.

Why did you make your wife keep track of all the birthdays until you got divorced? Why didn't you do that for yourself since you are a fully grown adult man with a brain and your own smartphone? How come DIVORCE was the impetus you needed to take that shit off your wife's To Do list?

(PS: women use smartphone calendars, too. We are not stupid.)

My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

After we divorced I set up everyone's birthday in my smart-phone calendar and my smart phone does my Emotional Labor for me now, telling me when to send birthday cards. Much cheaper and more efficient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

agree

don't even both trying to figure it out (lazy, no role models, selfish, clumsy, naïve, absentminded (my personal fave excuse), ignorant, etc.). who cares, you can't count on them for anything.

Look at all the chiding on this thread about "you can't change the person you married, they are what they are, you should have married better." It's hard to get someone to do something they don't want to do, even if it's the fair thing. And a problem for many of us is this lack of participation by our husbands wasn't clear until we had kids because our husbands did PLENTY of emotional labor and seeing to our needs while they were wooing us.

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hardest part of this for me in my marriage is that I [strike]perform some emotional labor[/strike] something because I think it's important but my husband doesn't think it is. So I'm doing some stuff that he thinks has no or low value but I think has high value, and we just disagree.

Fixed it for you, and, what exactly is wrong with this? How is this "special" or different from changing the oil in the car?

Anonymous wrote:So even though I was always the one who took care of the baby in the middle of the night etc. and otherwise wish like my husband and I could be on the same page with emotional labor, it's not as simple as a one way street in our household, and that's complicated, but really a good thing.

I still can't quite figure out what "emotional labor" is...because it seems to me that taking care of the baby in the middle of the night is physical labor.

This isn't really that difficult to understand if you actually try. I'm not sure why you're having such a difficult time with it. Seems a bit like willful obtuseness.

I'd never heard of emotional labor before but this is the main problem in my marriage. My husband sleeps through the night while I am taking care of sick kids. He is oblivious of what I go through. He can't even recognize when our kids are sick (even when they have needed to go to the ER). I feel like a martyr because I'm doing all the work, physical and emotional, to the point that I'm getting burnt out on it. He can't even see what needs to be done. If he clogs the toilet, I have to tell him to plunge it and then he acts like a grouch. It wouldn't be so bad if he would appreciate what I do and clean up after himself. The main problem with divorce is that I don't trust that he would take good care of the kids since he seems to be in his own fantasy world where he doesn't have to do his share of the labor and doesn't even notice his surroundings because he is always staring at a screen.