You or your DH need to have a Come to Jesus talk with your BIL. Not just for the sake of the extended family getting along but someone needs to defend your nieces and shield them from the craziness.

Can you say "h e l l with it" and be brutally honest with your SIL? What would you have to lose (besides DH and nieces, I guess...) by telling her that her sons are extremely misbehaved and by this age, they can not act that way anymore? Your relationship with her is already damaged so...

Find a way to at least include your nieces in your dad's party. BIL and SIL don't have to attend but your nieces need you and your family right now.

Like someone said in the original thread - your poor dead SIL. She must be spinning in her grave right now.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP. It's beyond insulting that you would exclude two of the grandchildren (step or not, they are still your BIL's children). And if they want to disappear into another room on their iPads, I don't see how that's any of your business or hurts anyone other than themselves.

+100000

Anonymous wrote:If you don't invite them all, your relationship with your BIL and his wife will suffer. If you DH is ok with that, go that route.

If you want to preserve your relationship, you need to invite the entire family. Find a way to accommodate the boys. Don't expect SIL to magically become a good parent. She won't. Expect them to act horribly. Plan accordingly.

Uh uh. Invite them sure. But if they act up tell BIL to take them home. Let SIL stay if she wants to.

My heart breaks for the two nephews. OP, you can't compare them to your boys. Their ages are the same but your boys have lived in a stable, loving home with a mom and a dad for their entire lives. I don't know what happened to the bio father of the boys, but it doesn't sound like he's in the picture. In the other thread you mentioned that it had just been SIL and those two boys for a long time. Now those boys are thrown into a new home that the didn't ask for, with little sisters and a stepdad they didn't ask for, possibly a new school, etc., etc., and they have to deal with you and your entire family. While that will/could be a good thing for them eventually, right now they're not having it. Their mom is dealing with being a new wife and new stepmom, while trying to maintain her loyalty to her sons. As much as you feel compelled to step it and straighten it all out, they really just need your love and support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be ridiculously offended if I married into a family and my kids weren't considered family. I think you're in the wrong.

Instead I think that when the kids are bad, you need to either take them outside or tell your new SIL that it's not okay.

These kids are OP's husband's brother's step children. Just where is the connection to OP's father? It's not OP's husband's father.

OP's father has included BIL in family events for 20 years. Up until he made the mistake of marrying Gemma and her rotten boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Again, I will explain. If they don't have tyson's chicken nuggets and kraft boxed macaroni they will not eat and they will cry and throw things. Even food. When playing games, even with headphones, they scream and yell and throw things. iPads always go so far with them too, they then want their consoles and want to leave and will start crying and screaming (I'm not kidding here, screaming) and kicking their mom if they don't. They also fart and belch all the time, including at the table. They bully their step sisters, they hit their mother. I have never been to any event with them that they have not done these things.

The issue is these children cannot behave. They don't even behave at church. They play on their phones or ipads, they talk, make noise, fart. Its not like I can invite them to this event and hope they are like your son and "no one will give a crap"

Well, I don't disbelieve you that they are badly behaved, but I also don't see how you thought you could not invite them without causing a major issue. Why not just make them the food they will eat? It seems like you are really obsessing about their behavior, which while it sounds obnoxious, should not be affecting you this profoundly.

this so much.

Obsessing about "fixing" these boys so they don't sully the family event. To the point of offending the new family member SIL. So sad.

Did OP really think SIl would understand when she stepped in and explained why the boys weren't acceptable?

Anonymous wrote:It's adults-only or ALL kids. Those are your options.

Literally any etiquette book, expert or advice columnist would tell you this.

NO-there are gradations of kids: OP's father's kids, his grandchildren, any special nieces/nephews [cousins of the grandchildren can be excluded]. Family friends children and grandchildren can be excluded.

Anonymous wrote:I would be ridiculously offended if I married into a family and my kids weren't considered family. I think you're in the wrong.

Instead I think that when the kids are bad, you need to either take them outside or tell your new SIL that it's not okay.

These kids are OP's husband's brother's step children. Just where is the connection to OP's father? It's not OP's husband's father.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get what the shock is here. You didn't want the nephews to attend, you told their mom that, she saw through your efforts to sugarcoat it, and she is now upset with you for doing exactly what you intended to do. Everything that happened afterward is a very foreseeable consequence of your decision to tell the mom not to bring her kids. So what you do now is decide that not have the nephews there is worth the estrangement, own your behavior and move on, or decide it isn't, and call their mother to apologize.

I am not sure why I have to "own my behavior". I was thinking of the comfort of my 75 year old father. He has already had to pull these boys aside for farting in church and belching/being nasty at other times. I was advised in the other thread to NOT invite them. Instead of going the easy for me route and just not putting them on the invite I tried to talk to my SIL.

Have you asked your father how he feels? It's his party. Would he rather invite the boys, or deal with ongoing family strife? My guess is he'd rather have the boys there. Your BIL knows his step sons are hellions, and you just need to trust that he'll do his best (and ask his wife to double down) to keep them in line at the party.

Where is the party being held? Can they hang out in another room once they start getting antsy? Another idea is to ask an unbiased third party to keep an eye out for any prolonged outrageous behavior, and designate that person to be the one to discretely ask the mom to please keep the kids in line or take them to another room or home (somebody BIL and SIL either don't know well, or have never met). Maybe somebody from the catering company, even...somebody who appears to be acting on behalf of the venue. And be fair. Do not get on their case for anything you'd otherwise tolerate in other children.

My father was in total agreement with my decision. After the summer from hell we all just went through he doesn't want them back at our vacation home either.

Its being held at our club. As I said in my OP, I did say I was fine with them there if she made sure they didn't disrupt the evening and she agreed they would not enjoy themselves and should not attend.

You could have just invited the BIL and SIL. They are ancillary guests anyway NOT related to your father. When I reach 75 I'd rather spend the party with the people most important to me NOT all my children's relatives by marriage and their kids.

Post 10:05 - Meant to say "the OP's husband's brother," not brother's brother.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly most PPs here have not read the original thread. You people coming down on OP don't know what you are talking about.

OP: I fear you may have come to the end of the road with this. Agree with posters who say that your DH needs to lay it on the line with his brother. Calmly but frank. These kids are disruptive to the point that it is unacceptable. If they want to take part in family activities, their behavior has to change. Otherwise, no, they will not be included.

Your BIL and SIL are beyond unreasonable here. You can only do so much.

+1

I feel bad for all the kids in your BIL's family. What a mess. I wonder if he really realized what a nightmare he was walking into.

OP, the boys are spoiled rotten hellions and I would never invite them to anything. Stand your ground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that you even say "our family dynamic" without recognizing that they are now FAMILY is telling...and disturbing.

+100000 As a stepchild twice over, that effing sucks.

The OPnever said "our family dynamic" they have also done everything possible to be welcoming and accommodating.

But ONLY if the boys aren't the kids they are. If they were "proper" boys there would be no problem.

Why couldn't the boys be allowed to attend but have there devices in another room?

As pp said, this event was not the time to take a stand against a new party the family.

I get what you are saying, but are you really suggesting that its OK for people including tweens, to continue with escalating bad behavior with no consequences socially because that's "who they are"? The world doesn't work like that. I'd be curious as to how these 2 boys are in school, do they have many friends? I have a feeling they have emotional problems as 1 suggested, which certainly needs compassion but you also need to tell BIL to step up and deal with those BIG issues otherwise they will become more and more estranged naturally. Not to be harsh but the BIL was welcomed into a family that had no real obligation to do so, so the sort of entitlement he has here is kind of ballsy, these aren't his parents!

Again, I will explain. If they don't have tyson's chicken nuggets and kraft boxed macaroni they will not eat and they will cry and throw things. Even food. When playing games, even with headphones, they scream and yell and throw things. iPads always go so far with them too, they then want their consoles and want to leave and will start crying and screaming (I'm not kidding here, screaming) and kicking their mom if they don't. They also fart and belch all the time, including at the table. They bully their step sisters, they hit their mother. I have never been to any event with them that they have not done these things.

The issue is these children cannot behave. They don't even behave at church. They play on their phones or ipads, they talk, make noise, fart. Its not like I can invite them to this event and hope they are like your son and "no one will give a crap"

Well, I don't disbelieve you that they are badly behaved, but I also don't see how you thought you could not invite them without causing a major issue. Why not just make them the food they will eat? It seems like you are really obsessing about their behavior, which while it sounds obnoxious, should not be affecting you this profoundly.

Clearly most PPs here have not read the original thread. You people coming down on OP don't know what you are talking about.

OP: I fear you may have come to the end of the road with this. Agree with posters who say that your DH needs to lay it on the line with his brother. Calmly but frank. These kids are disruptive to the point that it is unacceptable. If they want to take part in family activities, their behavior has to change. Otherwise, no, they will not be included.

Your BIL and SIL are beyond unreasonable here. You can only do so much.