Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

If my 4 year old was standing on someone's couch, I would be fine if someone removed him. He absolutely knows that isn't the right way to act, so he doesn't get warnings to comply.

I'm the first PP here. And so would I. Except after removing her, he was angrily grabbing at her. That I would NOT be fine with.

You are assuming that the child politely and compliantly stepped off the sofa arm and was obediently sitting down when BIL angrily grabbed her by the legs and started pulling her off the sofa.

I mean, come on.

Have you ever seen a kid standing on a high piece of furniture that they are not supposed to stand on, like a sofa arm or a table? They don't compliantly and safely get down whem corrected, unless the adult manually removes them. The dismount usually involves some sort of running, hopping, jumping or other equally inappropriate or dangerous behavior.

The image I have is of the girl defiantly ignoring the initial "No" and then as BIL moves towards her to manually remove her from the dangerous situation she jumps off the arm onto the couch cushions with a series of hopping runs away from him, followed by a belly flop. BIL ended up grabbing her legs vs torso in the process of trying to catch her to remove her from the couch. That is the only scenario that makes sense. I bet if BIL posted here his version would echo what I am envisioning.

(I posted earlier about having a lot of boys. Been there, done that with removing young kids from climbing/jumping on things that they shouldn't and what I described is typical of what usually happens when a kid is doing something like what OP described. There is no way on the planet that OPs daughter just obediently got off the arm and sat down to be grabbed by the legs by BIL. Couches are bouncy and fun. OPs daughter was running/jumping/bounding away across the cushions and she only witnessed the very tail end af the aftermath

Because you're again envisioning yourself and your reactions as if you were the BIL. This guy was clearly out of control. If a four year old didn't listen to you, hippity hop bounced all over your sofa as you tried to grab them as you're describing, would you then turn around and scream in your BIL's face? No. You wouldn't.

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

I would bet he apologized because they were packing up to leave. Drama all around.

If you read the OP it sounds like he didn't even know they were packing up. Just that they had retreated to the guest room because he had reduced two children to tears and screamed in his BIL's face.

OP here. That's right; he came right up to the room a few moments later and apologized. So it wasn't at my SIL's prompting (she wasn't home). And no, he didn't know we were packing; just that we had gone to the room. And we really weren't packing--I shouldn't have said that earlier. We were just discussing packing up and leaving. Although packing up would have meant just putting the bags in the car, because basically everything was still in the bags.

Anyway, I guess I did come here because I was hoping for support, for validation that what my BIL did was wrong. I get it that many of you don't seem to agree.

OP, I'm sorry. These people are nuts. I posted a minute ago about my father and I totally understand how this whole incident could have gone down. This post has zero to do with whether she was doing something she shouldn't because it really doesn't even have that much to do with the fact that he tried discipline your kid. Correcting someone else's child who is misbehaving in your home is fine. Your BIL just has a temper and he lashed out in a totally inappropriate way. But his apology indicates that he knows it.

PP, I understand what you're talking about, because I have family with short fuses. But I want to point out that BIL screamed at OP's DH, not the child. Not the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

I would bet he apologized because they were packing up to leave. Drama all around.

If you read the OP it sounds like he didn't even know they were packing up. Just that they had retreated to the guest room because he had reduced two children to tears and screamed in his BIL's face.

OP here. That's right; he came right up to the room a few moments later and apologized. So it wasn't at my SIL's prompting (she wasn't home). And no, he didn't know we were packing; just that we had gone to the room. And we really weren't packing--I shouldn't have said that earlier. We were just discussing packing up and leaving. Although packing up would have meant just putting the bags in the car, because basically everything was still in the bags.

Anyway, I guess I did come here because I was hoping for support, for validation that what my BIL did was wrong. I get it that many of you don't seem to agree.

OP, I'm sorry. These people are nuts. I posted a minute ago about my father and I totally understand how this whole incident could have gone down. This post has zero to do with whether she was doing something she shouldn't because it really doesn't even have that much to do with the fact that he tried discipline your kid. Correcting someone else's child who is misbehaving in your home is fine. Your BIL just has a temper and he lashed out in a totally inappropriate way. But his apology indicates that he knows it.

PP, I understand what you're talking about, because I have family with short fuses. But I want to point out that BIL screamed at OP's DH, not the child. Not the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I guess I wouldn't care if you were so offended my child climbed on your sofa and I did nothing about it. Move fast and break things. I believe childhood is to be creative and explore.

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

If my 4 year old was standing on someone's couch, I would be fine if someone removed him. He absolutely knows that isn't the right way to act, so he doesn't get warnings to comply.

I'm the first PP here. And so would I. Except after removing her, he was angrily grabbing at her. That I would NOT be fine with.

You are assuming that the child politely and compliantly stepped off the sofa arm and was obediently sitting down when BIL angrily grabbed her by the legs and started pulling her off the sofa.

I mean, come on.

Have you ever seen a kid standing on a high piece of furniture that they are not supposed to stand on, like a sofa arm or a table? They don't compliantly and safely get down whem corrected, unless the adult manually removes them. The dismount usually involves some sort of running, hopping, jumping or other equally inappropriate or dangerous behavior.

The image I have is of the girl defiantly ignoring the initial "No" and then as BIL moves towards her to manually remove her from the dangerous situation she jumps off the arm onto the couch cushions with a series of hopping runs away from him, followed by a belly flop. BIL ended up grabbing her legs vs torso in the process of trying to catch her to remove her from the couch. That is the only scenario that makes sense. I bet if BIL posted here his version would echo what I am envisioning.

(I posted earlier about having a lot of boys. Been there, done that with removing young kids from climbing/jumping on things that they shouldn't and what I described is typical of what usually happens when a kid is doing something like what OP described. There is no way on the planet that OPs daughter just obediently got off the arm and sat down to be grabbed by the legs by BIL. Couches are bouncy and fun. OPs daughter was running/jumping/bounding away across the cushions and she only witnessed the very tail end af the aftermath

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think this says everything about the people responding that she had it coming. You're picturing yourself as the BIL and thinking, "well, she must be a little brat for him to have gotten so angry." I grew up with a father with a very short fuse. If you saw him in action, you would think that often his reactions to normal inconveniences were completely out of proportion and at times inappropriate. Please don't assume that every parent's reaction is going to be like yours. This sounds like OP encountered another parent who didn't just have a different parenting style, but who is just not in control of his emotions when dealing with a small child. OP, I think you did the right thing to accept his apology and stay and I might even stay again. But you need to make clear with him and your sister that, while you're fine with them correcting your children when they are misbehaving, you are not fine with them getting physical with them when they are angry.

Blame-the-victim type stuff. Like, 'she must have been out late' or 'she must have been dressed too sexily'

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?