I Nair'd myself when I was 10 (many many years ago), then switched to shaving.

Now I use these
http://www.veet.us/products/wax-strips/
and highly recommend them. Easy and not painful.

Waxing kids? Only the vain moms in DC do this. Maybe NY or LA too. 10 people!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my house the decision would be her body, her choice. But I would recommend Nair or waxing.

In mine too, but only after I was sure she understood the societal dynamics that makes shaving a desirable behavior for women, and after I was sure she didn't prefer me to deal with the people who should put a stop to the teasing and the persona comments from her peers.

Also, the shaving would happen in a way that's consistent with our family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, not at a salon.

Ok, eyeroller, since I'm the poster you're snarking at, honest questions for you:

do decisions happen in a vacuum in your family?

Do house rules go out of the window when a child of yours wants to do something s/he hadn't been doing before?

The eye rolls were directed toward your oh-so-earnest need to turn a very simple issue into something involving "societal dynamics, desirable behavior for women, shaving as related to family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, blah blah blah". Does every decision you make entail the same laborious thought process? When you eat out, do you insist on knowing the background of the chicken you're about to eat - did she have a good life, etc. a la Portlandia caricature? Actually, I'm sure chicken wouldn't ever cross your plate, cruelty-free and all that.

Anyhow, you're just too precious for words. As for "house rules going out the window" when my child wants to do something new? If we feel it makes sense to adjust our rules accordingly, then we do. We don't hold fast to unbendable, inflexible rules just because. If a situation calls for a new approach, we're able to adjust - and the sky doesn't fall.

It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

As for the chicken question, we're a Vegan household and eat out accordingly. But I'm sure that was a provocation... here, I bit, aren't you proud of yourself?

Re. the adjusting of house rules, our daughter being allowed to shave would be the adjustment. Our family's key values (the ones you seem to enjoy snarking at) would remain the same. She would shave according to them or she wouldn't be shaving at all. Her choice.

Middle aged guy here. I love that you are fighting the patriarchy (really, no snark). But I think it's important to remember that your daughter is growing up inside the patriarchy. It's her native country, unfortunately. Sometimes you have to make compromises.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the pro-waxers: hello, do you remember that it HURTS?

I remember 'borrowing' the Nair and removing my leg hair without Mom's permission. My smooth legs were the best thing I had ever felt! There's really nothing to be gained by delaying the start of shaving, especially if she's this self-conscious. Same with eyebrows - my poor friends with unibrows waiting for some arbitrary start date to have access to the tweezers.

I remember a middle school friend of mine telling me her mom had been taking her to get her legs waxed since she was 11 or 12, in the hopes that it limit/reduce growth. I don't think she ever became particularly hairy. I was envious because I didn't feel I could have a direct conversation with my mother about this. She would just say no. So I was shaving without guidance and dealing with Nair burns, etc.

I had this idea back when I first started waxing myself (late 20s). I thought if you wax early/often she'd end up with less hairy legs overall. I'll let my daughter decide for herself, but will offer it up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the pro-waxers: hello, do you remember that it HURTS?

I remember 'borrowing' the Nair and removing my leg hair without Mom's permission. My smooth legs were the best thing I had ever felt! There's really nothing to be gained by delaying the start of shaving, especially if she's this self-conscious. Same with eyebrows - my poor friends with unibrows waiting for some arbitrary start date to have access to the tweezers.

I remember a middle school friend of mine telling me her mom had been taking her to get her legs waxed since she was 11 or 12, in the hopes that it limit/reduce growth. I don't think she ever became particularly hairy. I was envious because I didn't feel I could have a direct conversation with my mother about this. She would just say no. So I was shaving without guidance and dealing with Nair burns, etc.

Thank you for this post! I'll take note, as a mother of a 9-year old.

Anonymous wrote:To the pro-waxers: hello, do you remember that it HURTS?

I remember 'borrowing' the Nair and removing my leg hair without Mom's permission. My smooth legs were the best thing I had ever felt! There's really nothing to be gained by delaying the start of shaving, especially if she's this self-conscious. Same with eyebrows - my poor friends with unibrows waiting for some arbitrary start date to have access to the tweezers.

I remember a middle school friend of mine telling me her mom had been taking her to get her legs waxed since she was 11 or 12, in the hopes that it limit/reduce growth. I don't think she ever became particularly hairy. I was envious because I didn't feel I could have a direct conversation with my mother about this. She would just say no. So I was shaving without guidance and dealing with Nair burns, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hygiene and grooming are two different things. I'd say this is a grooming issue on which people have divided views on whether grooming is expected or a matter of vanity. The answer is obviously informed by social, culturally, and personal values.

In some cultures it is crystal clear that removing leg hair is an essential grooming issue. In others, it would seem crazy. I'd say in the US far more people than not believe shaving is a basic of grooming. others think it is not, with some of the latter saying it's vanity. There isn't a right answer here, but clearly no one who thinks about this for more than a few minutes would come away with the view that it is a hygiene issue.

I agree and it is 100% vanity for 10yr olds. What if everyone makes fun of her nose, or her freckles, etc... You have to like yourself. If you teach your kids to change themselves every time someone says something, they will never be happy.

I don't understand responses like this. If she were 16 would you allow dd to shave? Do you shave? You're still changing your body to conform to societal standards, even though you're older. What's the lesson to be learned from being bullied for years until she reaches an arbitrary age, if you're planning on letting her do it eventually anyway?

It's not like driving, dating, drinking, enlisting in the military, etc, in which case being older allows for safer or wiser choices. I just don't understand making them wait. If a parent didn't believe in shaving for some moral or religious reasons, I'd get that more (not really understand, but I think I'd get that more than an arbitrary and inflexible age limit).

So do you let your 10yr old wear make-up because it makes her feel better? Kids think she is ugly and it makes her feel better. Would you let her? There is no difference. 10yr old is a CHILD. There is no reason a child should be doing anything but shampoo and soap.

My 10 y.o. daughter recently got her first huge zit. She was mortified, so I showed her how to put a tiny dab of concealer on it. Immediately, her entire demeanor changed as she realized this wasn't the end of the world. Did she have a full face of makeup? Nope, just a tiny bit, right on the zit. I see nothing wrong with making appropriate adjustments throughout childhood, as needed. I would hate to be so rigid in my standards that I couldn't even compromise on certain issues that are bound to come up.

I think putting concealer on a 10yr old is terrible. I think it is the moms who have the issues, not the kids.

And I think you're a mean mother who is entirely lacking in empathy. It would be so sad to be a self-conscious child of yours with no one to turn to for empathy or help. Hopefully your husband is more understanding.

you tell her!

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

Don't make your daughter fight the patriarchy on your behalf. Help her navigate the elementary and middle school norms emotionally intact, so she can fight the battles she wants to fight once she's old enough to do so.

It's a more extreme case, but it reminds me of the contingent of naked people I saw in a parade in a very lefty, liberal, non-patriarchal place. What troubled me was the fact that some of their elementary-aged kids were marching with them, also naked. Now maybe they really did want to fight norms by parading naked down the street, but maybe they were also feeling coerced by parents who said, "if you choose to wear clothes, you are choosing to adopt the anti-nudist paradigm and anti-nudism-dictated norms."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my house the decision would be her body, her choice. But I would recommend Nair or waxing.

In mine too, but only after I was sure she understood the societal dynamics that makes shaving a desirable behavior for women, and after I was sure she didn't prefer me to deal with the people who should put a stop to the teasing and the persona comments from her peers.

Also, the shaving would happen in a way that's consistent with our family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, not at a salon.

Ok, eyeroller, since I'm the poster you're snarking at, honest questions for you:

do decisions happen in a vacuum in your family?

Do house rules go out of the window when a child of yours wants to do something s/he hadn't been doing before?

The eye rolls were directed toward your oh-so-earnest need to turn a very simple issue into something involving "societal dynamics, desirable behavior for women, shaving as related to family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, blah blah blah". Does every decision you make entail the same laborious thought process? When you eat out, do you insist on knowing the background of the chicken you're about to eat - did she have a good life, etc. a la Portlandia caricature? Actually, I'm sure chicken wouldn't ever cross your plate, cruelty-free and all that.

Anyhow, you're just too precious for words. As for "house rules going out the window" when my child wants to do something new? If we feel it makes sense to adjust our rules accordingly, then we do. We don't hold fast to unbendable, inflexible rules just because. If a situation calls for a new approach, we're able to adjust - and the sky doesn't fall.

It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

As for the chicken question, we're a Vegan household and eat out accordingly. But I'm sure that was a provocation... here, I bit, aren't you proud of yourself?

Re. the adjusting of house rules, our daughter being allowed to shave would be the adjustment. Our family's key values (the ones you seem to enjoy snarking at) would remain the same. She would shave according to them or she wouldn't be shaving at all. Her choice.

I bet you homeschool your kids and don't own a TV. Where can I sign petition to free your kids from your non-patriarchal, vegan, cruelty-free household?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

As for the chicken question, we're a Vegan household and eat out accordingly. But I'm sure that was a provocation... here, I bit, aren't you proud of yourself?

Re. the adjusting of house rules, our daughter being allowed to shave would be the adjustment. Our family's key values (the ones you seem to enjoy snarking at) would remain the same. She would shave according to them or she wouldn't be shaving at all. Her choice.

Ohhhh dear.

lol- typically I speak English at home and Corporate Jargon at work. It must be exhausting to view the world as choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm... oy vey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my house the decision would be her body, her choice. But I would recommend Nair or waxing.

In mine too, but only after I was sure she understood the societal dynamics that makes shaving a desirable behavior for women, and after I was sure she didn't prefer me to deal with the people who should put a stop to the teasing and the persona comments from her peers.

Also, the shaving would happen in a way that's consistent with our family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, not at a salon.

Ok, eyeroller, since I'm the poster you're snarking at, honest questions for you:

do decisions happen in a vacuum in your family?

Do house rules go out of the window when a child of yours wants to do something s/he hadn't been doing before?

The eye rolls were directed toward your oh-so-earnest need to turn a very simple issue into something involving "societal dynamics, desirable behavior for women, shaving as related to family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, blah blah blah". Does every decision you make entail the same laborious thought process? When you eat out, do you insist on knowing the background of the chicken you're about to eat - did she have a good life, etc. a la Portlandia caricature? Actually, I'm sure chicken wouldn't ever cross your plate, cruelty-free and all that.

Anyhow, you're just too precious for words. As for "house rules going out the window" when my child wants to do something new? If we feel it makes sense to adjust our rules accordingly, then we do. We don't hold fast to unbendable, inflexible rules just because. If a situation calls for a new approach, we're able to adjust - and the sky doesn't fall.

It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

As for the chicken question, we're a Vegan household and eat out accordingly. But I'm sure that was a provocation... here, I bit, aren't you proud of yourself?

Re. the adjusting of house rules, our daughter being allowed to shave would be the adjustment. Our family's key values (the ones you seem to enjoy snarking at) would remain the same. She would shave according to them or she wouldn't be shaving at all. Her choice.

Ohhhh dear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my house the decision would be her body, her choice. But I would recommend Nair or waxing.

In mine too, but only after I was sure she understood the societal dynamics that makes shaving a desirable behavior for women, and after I was sure she didn't prefer me to deal with the people who should put a stop to the teasing and the persona comments from her peers.

Also, the shaving would happen in a way that's consistent with our family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, not at a salon.

Ok, eyeroller, since I'm the poster you're snarking at, honest questions for you:

do decisions happen in a vacuum in your family?

Do house rules go out of the window when a child of yours wants to do something s/he hadn't been doing before?

The eye rolls were directed toward your oh-so-earnest need to turn a very simple issue into something involving "societal dynamics, desirable behavior for women, shaving as related to family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, blah blah blah". Does every decision you make entail the same laborious thought process? When you eat out, do you insist on knowing the background of the chicken you're about to eat - did she have a good life, etc. a la Portlandia caricature? Actually, I'm sure chicken wouldn't ever cross your plate, cruelty-free and all that.

Anyhow, you're just too precious for words. As for "house rules going out the window" when my child wants to do something new? If we feel it makes sense to adjust our rules accordingly, then we do. We don't hold fast to unbendable, inflexible rules just because. If a situation calls for a new approach, we're able to adjust - and the sky doesn't fall.

It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

As for the chicken question, we're a Vegan household and eat out accordingly. But I'm sure that was a provocation... here, I bit, aren't you proud of yourself?

Re. the adjusting of house rules, our daughter being allowed to shave would be the adjustment. Our family's key values (the ones you seem to enjoy snarking at) would remain the same. She would shave according to them or she wouldn't be shaving at all. Her choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my house the decision would be her body, her choice. But I would recommend Nair or waxing.

In mine too, but only after I was sure she understood the societal dynamics that makes shaving a desirable behavior for women, and after I was sure she didn't prefer me to deal with the people who should put a stop to the teasing and the persona comments from her peers.

Also, the shaving would happen in a way that's consistent with our family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, not at a salon.

Ok, eyeroller, since I'm the poster you're snarking at, honest questions for you:

do decisions happen in a vacuum in your family?

Do house rules go out of the window when a child of yours wants to do something s/he hadn't been doing before?

The eye rolls were directed toward your oh-so-earnest need to turn a very simple issue into something involving "societal dynamics, desirable behavior for women, shaving as related to family values - frugally, cruelty-free products only, at home, blah blah blah". Does every decision you make entail the same laborious thought process? When you eat out, do you insist on knowing the background of the chicken you're about to eat - did she have a good life, etc. a la Portlandia caricature? Actually, I'm sure chicken wouldn't ever cross your plate, cruelty-free and all that.

Anyhow, you're just too precious for words. As for "house rules going out the window" when my child wants to do something new? If we feel it makes sense to adjust our rules accordingly, then we do. We don't hold fast to unbendable, inflexible rules just because. If a situation calls for a new approach, we're able to adjust - and the sky doesn't fall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hygiene and grooming are two different things. I'd say this is a grooming issue on which people have divided views on whether grooming is expected or a matter of vanity. The answer is obviously informed by social, culturally, and personal values.

In some cultures it is crystal clear that removing leg hair is an essential grooming issue. In others, it would seem crazy. I'd say in the US far more people than not believe shaving is a basic of grooming. others think it is not, with some of the latter saying it's vanity. There isn't a right answer here, but clearly no one who thinks about this for more than a few minutes would come away with the view that it is a hygiene issue.

I agree and it is 100% vanity for 10yr olds. What if everyone makes fun of her nose, or her freckles, etc... You have to like yourself. If you teach your kids to change themselves every time someone says something, they will never be happy.

I don't understand responses like this. If she were 16 would you allow dd to shave? Do you shave? You're still changing your body to conform to societal standards, even though you're older. What's the lesson to be learned from being bullied for years until she reaches an arbitrary age, if you're planning on letting her do it eventually anyway?

It's not like driving, dating, drinking, enlisting in the military, etc, in which case being older allows for safer or wiser choices. I just don't understand making them wait. If a parent didn't believe in shaving for some moral or religious reasons, I'd get that more (not really understand, but I think I'd get that more than an arbitrary and inflexible age limit).

So do you let your 10yr old wear make-up because it makes her feel better? Kids think she is ugly and it makes her feel better. Would you let her? There is no difference. 10yr old is a CHILD. There is no reason a child should be doing anything but shampoo and soap.

My 10 y.o. daughter recently got her first huge zit. She was mortified, so I showed her how to put a tiny dab of concealer on it. Immediately, her entire demeanor changed as she realized this wasn't the end of the world. Did she have a full face of makeup? Nope, just a tiny bit, right on the zit. I see nothing wrong with making appropriate adjustments throughout childhood, as needed. I would hate to be so rigid in my standards that I couldn't even compromise on certain issues that are bound to come up.

I think putting concealer on a 10yr old is terrible. I think it is the moms who have the issues, not the kids.

And I think you're a mean mother who is entirely lacking in empathy. It would be so sad to be a self-conscious child of yours with no one to turn to for empathy or help. Hopefully your husband is more understanding.

To the pro-waxers: hello, do you remember that it HURTS?

I remember 'borrowing' the Nair and removing my leg hair without Mom's permission. My smooth legs were the best thing I had ever felt! There's really nothing to be gained by delaying the start of shaving, especially if she's this self-conscious. Same with eyebrows - my poor friends with unibrows waiting for some arbitrary start date to have access to the tweezers.