Anonymous wrote:Very interesting thread. OP, I'm curious as to what you think about middle or slightly lower middle class parents who encourage their children to take up a trade, join a labor union, etc.

Joining a union isn't an end in itself. It's working at a good, solid, unionized job that masters. Those are largely gone, and are not coming back. A pity that companies here just won't pay their workers more.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently graduated from a top-rated college and prepared by that institution for exactly bupkus, despite straight A's. She did her major learning in high school, thank heavens, because college was pretty much a waste of time an money from my vantage point. She had classes two or three days a week for a few hours, watched a lot of TV, and took classes with names like "gender roles in Sci Fi" or "crisis in the classroom", "art and activism". Or am I just grumpy? I took Physics, Calculus, Economics, Sociology, World History, Literature, and highly demanding subject area courses, and little time for drinking and zero time for TV-watching.

She choose poorly. (I did the same thing and ended up in law school. I hate it.)

No way will my kid only take those classes. They better get at least one marketable skill out of college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I get the gist of what you're saying. Not sure about the discussion you've anticipated however.

Entrepreneurship and vocational training may very well rise somewhat in step with tuition costs. I'm more interested in what the middle class will do as college gets out of reach for many.

The 1% can fund a small business for their children, perhaps in lieu of tuition. I won't be surprised to others putting whatever support they can offer behind a young person's effort to create something for themselves independent of a college degree.

I wonder about liberal arts. I have already noticed that my liberal arts college (Sarah Lawrence) has moved towards social entrepreneurship, providing a context for learning while encouraging innovation. Not necessarily the middle class there, but I feel like I've caught a glimpse of the future.

Lower middle class for the DC area. We're opting to go through the French school system so that DD can opt for university in Canada, France, and the like if American universities continue to balloon.

We're looking at Canadian schools, too.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter recently graduated from a top-rated college and prepared by that institution for exactly bupkus, despite straight A's. She did her major learning in high school, thank heavens, because college was pretty much a waste of time an money from my vantage point. She had classes two or three days a week for a few hours, watched a lot of TV, and took classes with names like "gender roles in Sci Fi" or "crisis in the classroom", "art and activism". Or am I just grumpy? I took Physics, Calculus, Economics, Sociology, World History, Literature, and highly demanding subject area courses, and little time for drinking and zero time for TV-watching.

Sounds like Crisis in the Classroom was redundant then. Can you seek a refund?

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read all of the replies, but we do very well for DC standards and are well educated. I don't believe college will be a waste for our kids BUT I do believe private school tuition is not necessary. I agree that practical experiences are more important and if they choose college want them to go to a state school or even a community college first. We can afford expensive tuition but it is not worth it for undergrad and sending them the wrong message about what's important in life.

Nice rationalization.

I didn't read all of the replies, but we do very well for DC standards and are well educated. I don't believe college will be a waste for our kids BUT I do believe private school tuition is not necessary. I agree that practical experiences are more important and if they choose college want them to go to a state school or even a community college first. We can afford expensive tuition but it is not worth it for undergrad and sending them the wrong message about what's important in life.

^ This is what is scaring me. Do you think she would have benefited from a "gap year" in the middle of college? Did she have any internships or work experience?

My daughter recently graduated from a top-rated college and prepared by that institution for exactly bupkus, despite straight A's. She did her major learning in high school, thank heavens, because college was pretty much a waste of time an money from my vantage point. She had classes two or three days a week for a few hours, watched a lot of TV, and took classes with names like "gender roles in Sci Fi" or "crisis in the classroom", "art and activism". Or am I just grumpy? I took Physics, Calculus, Economics, Sociology, World History, Literature, and highly demanding subject area courses, and little time for drinking and zero time for TV-watching.

OP, I think what you've said is spot on. As a couple who've been very well educated, it is not what we are pushing on our kids. Yes, we are making sure to provide them with top notch education, however it's not a straight A or die type influence. We are successful business owners and it is way more important for them to understand how the world works, how to critically think and to know that networking is really fundamental.

College is a wonderful experience and a place to let it all sink in. However it is not the end point. Ivy league is obviously great, but I'm not having my kid stress out for the sake of it. Go to Harvard, go to Yale or go to Princeton for the connections it provides, not just to say you received your English degree from there. That point is one that a lot of people are missing these days.

To start tutoring kids in elementary school and signing them up for a ton of sports does what? Causes them to stress the hell out. And for what? So they can get into a great college and learn to be a great worker bee? Then head straight to the bank to buy a house they can barely afford and a car they can barely afford because they think this is what they are supposed to do. Or so they can get out of college and not have a clue as to what they are going to do with their life? When you talk to the disillusioned barista, understand you don't want that to be your kid....ever. Life experience has no price but is worth much. What's the point in providing your child with top notch everything if they have no clue as to how to keep it going. We make it clear to our girls, if you like the life you live understand it takes work to keep it going. We aren't where we are by accident. Nor are we there because we have a ton of degrees. We work smart, not hard and I truly hope that is a lesson they take with them for life.

Anonymous wrote:So...I am wealthy. Reside in West Coast. Very new money, and also highly educated. I made $$$ with a start-up. I have two children, under 10.

We discuss education with other people. I have noticed that people who are not highly educated, even if wealthy, will enroll their children in very expensive private schools. They generally obsess about "which school are your LO's attending?" The same for highly educated, but of modest means.

However.

The very rich, who are also very, very educated (I am talking Ivy/Ivy-equivalent undergrad, with same advanced multiple degrees) are now secretly espousing the view that education, whether public or private, is a has-been. Information is readily available, and they see it as not worth the money.

What they are discussing doing, is giving their children unconventional educations and experiences from early childhood, and pushing them to create--companies, non-profits, whatever, at an early age. College is a fallback, if other ventures fail. And certainly something to drop very quickly if other ventures flourish. Depending on their location, they may still go private, but some surprising don't. Most do, due to security concerns. But college as in institution is something that this group really despises.

By the time my children are college-age, the truly elite may have moved on to other circles for post-secondary education...and colleges will be another version of public schools. The wealthy/smart money are fleeing institutional education.

I know this because I am part of this circle. And I am posting this because this is an anonymous forum and I think it's something worthy of discussion, depending on what you are seeking for your children.

What do you think?

OP, I am fascinated by your post. I would like to add that providing this "unconventional" education better prepares kids for the real world in general.

Anonymous wrote:
I get the gist of what you're saying. Not sure about the discussion you've anticipated however.

Entrepreneurship and vocational training may very well rise somewhat in step with tuition costs. I'm more interested in what the middle class will do as college gets out of reach for many.

The 1% can fund a small business for their children, perhaps in lieu of tuition. I won't be surprised to others putting whatever support they can offer behind a young person's effort to create something for themselves independent of a college degree.

I wonder about liberal arts. I have already noticed that my liberal arts college (Sarah Lawrence) has moved towards social entrepreneurship, providing a context for learning while encouraging innovation. Not necessarily the middle class there, but I feel like I've caught a glimpse of the future.

Lower middle class for the DC area. We're opting to go through the French school system so that DD can opt for university in Canada, France, and the like if American universities continue to balloon.

OP, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but Bill Gates disagrees with you as far as college is concerned:

http://www.gatesnotes.com/Education/11-Million-College-Grads

This is ridiculous. The purpose of college is not to get a job or even acquire skills that will lead automatically to wealth accululation. It's to, you know, learn something new about the world

MOOC away!

What the rich do is what the rich do. There aren't too many big "secrets". They can handle college any way they want to handle it.

Most of us are not the rich and do what we have to do to stay in the middle class.