Anonymous wrote:OP Haven't read any of the replies but my thoughts..

Having lived in the mid-west for 5 years, and having been born and raised here and then retransplanted back to DC after our 5 years in the Mid-West ...

DO IT! There is nothing negative about it.

1) low COL

2) incredibly, genuinely nice people

3) strong employment market in many cities

4) contrary to what I am sure someone said over the last 8 pages - there is not nearly as much racism as there is here in DC. People in the mid-west are very welcoming and open. The lack of AAs in many of the cities doesn't mean that its a racist city or state. It simply means that everyone believes the sterotypes and BS and therefore never even consider the option of moving to one of these perfectly wonderful places.

Oh. Lots of career full time working moms? Didn't realize that about the mid west, thought DC had the highest percentage of working moms.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have an opinion on Indiana or Ohio?

Ohio's 3 major cities (Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati) are all pretty different from each other. Cincinnati has a reputation for being much more conservative, Columbus is the largest and has Ohio State but is always kind of forgotten, Cleveland is maybe finally just now starting to become a bit more stable - but is always teetering on the edge. And the weather is God-awful.

I would not recommend moving to one of the smaller cities like Akron, Toledo, Dayton, or Youngstown.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved from DC to Cincinnati a couple years ago. We're mostly happy with the decision. We both got pay raises, the parks here are wonderful, and the people are very friendly. We miss access to the ocean, but hopefully a few vacations to the beach can help. The weather is extremely similar to DC, so no change there. Our kids are still really little, and daycare is fairly affordable. We pay $500/week for two kids. All considered, I'm happy we made the move.

No mention of the world class opportunities you have in DC.

NP here. Do you mean jobs? Those opportunities are overstated. For every one opportunity here, there are about a million applicants. Degrees -- even high-level degrees from well-respected institutions -- are meaningless because everyone has them. It's impossible to get ahead without knowing someone. So there's heavy pressure to schmooze.

Or do you mean the world class venues, like the Smithsonian? Well, good luck enjoying a peaceful day when the weather is good. I love the Smithsonian and I love festivals, but I can't take the extreme crowds anymore. I went to some Cherry Blossom events and ended up just getting home as soon as I could. The crowds were so thick, it was oppressive. There are truly wonderful things in downtown DC, but for people like me, who don't do well in heavy crowds, it actually makes DC a worse place to live than some small town because I end up not wanting to do anything or go anywhere because between either the crowded public transit or the horrible traffic and then the huge swarms of people at the event, I ended up exasperated and drained.

You don't have to be for DC or against DC. There are lots of wonderful places to live with different things to offer. I feel like any time someone tries to say nice things about living somewhere else, people come on here and act like DC is the only place in the country where anyone with a brain would want to live, and that's just not true. In fact, I often feel like the politics in DC kind of squash the intellectual potential because *everything* is political. It's impossible to escape it. And even the most open-minded friends I have here also tend to be hyper political and so I always feel guarded in what I say.

I think there are great things about DC, but having worked in DC for years and lived on the outskirts for years, I feel there are also many things about DC that are oppressive. It's a different kind of oppressive than what you find in a small town, but it is still oppressive. I feel like it's impossible to escape politics. Everyone has a cause. Everyone is easily offended. Every word is loaded. Everyone seems "on" all of the time. There is so much intense networking. I feel like people around here collect friends they think will be useful to them in some way. It's very difficult to really know who is genuinely your friend and who will drop you the minute you either disagree or prove not useful.

I even tried spending time in a more new-agey circle. But I found the same kind of dynamic.

And I don't think people in DC are any less judgmental than people in small towns.

I would love to leave DC, but my job is rooted here. My husband has more flexibility because he works for a larger company with offices in different cities. But I would have a difficult time finding the kind of job I have here. Sometimes I regret letting myself get backed into a corner career-wise. It's even hard to move around within the DC area because there are so many applicants, and it seems you really have to have a connection on the inside.

I don't hate DC. But I feel pretty certain I'd be happier somewhere else, somewhere less populated, less congested, more working class, even with a larger percentage of blue collar. I'm sure I'd get frustrated because people are people. But I think I'd have less daily aggravation. The commute, the traffic, the crowds. It's just too much.

Even my friends. They are good people, but they have all become so hyper political and hyper judgmental. It's exhausting.

cherry blossom is one of the busiest times ever

Anonymous wrote:OP, two years ago we left DC for Iowa. Both DH and I are born and raised natives so it was a HUGE move not only for us but for our families as well. Here's what we found:
My base salary increased by 40K, my bonus increased 70K
DH salary decreased by 20K, his bonus stayed the same
Private school tuition for two kids dropped from 52K to 12K
Our 4BR, 3BA brand new house with upgraded everything, acre lot and full landscaping in what is considered 'the best' neighborhood cost 525K
We joined the local golf/tennis/swim club for 3K per year
My daughter's music teacher costs $200/semester for private lessons thru the local university's community music program
My commute is 7 minutes, DH is 12 minutes.
I never drive more than 10 minutes for any errand or shopping.
We have made a lot of really good friends, so many that we're woefully behind on reciprocating invitations so we need to have a big patio party soon.

To be honest, we were really apprehensive, but we've been here 2 years and you couldn't pay us enough to move back to the rat race. I know people will prattle on about museums, etc. but in all honesty, how often did you avail yourself to all the cultural aspects of the city? If you find that yes, you take full advantage of the museums, ballet, theater, etc. then you probably wont' be happy here. If not, you may find you have a lot to gain in a slower paced environment.

To another point, yes, there is the keep up with the Jones' everywhere you go, but the Jones' have less here then they do in DC so keeping up is pretty easy. That and people think its really tacky to talk about how your kid is taking calculus in the 7th grade

The state college system is pretty good. If you are an Iowa resident and your kid scores decently on exams and grades they can go to one of the 3 state universities for peanuts. Most of the Iowa private colleges (including Grinnell where DS is going in the fall) offer Iowa kids generous scholarships just for being Iowan.

All in all, its not for everyone but its worth checking out. West Des Moines is very nice, lots of jobs and tons of growth going on right now.

Good luck

You have a lifestyle that sounds completely suburban. It's not just "the museums," but metro? ethnic food? major league baseball? If your focus is jobs, private school and patio parties, of course the Midwest will be a good deal. Sounds like you didn't get to enjoy any of the amenities that makes DC special.

Anonymous wrote:OP, two years ago we left DC for Iowa. Both DH and I are born and raised natives so it was a HUGE move not only for us but for our families as well. Here's what we found:
My base salary increased by 40K, my bonus increased 70K
DH salary decreased by 20K, his bonus stayed the same
Private school tuition for two kids dropped from 52K to 12K
Our 4BR, 3BA brand new house with upgraded everything, acre lot and full landscaping in what is considered 'the best' neighborhood cost 525K
We joined the local golf/tennis/swim club for 3K per year
My daughter's music teacher costs $200/semester for private lessons thru the local university's community music program
My commute is 7 minutes, DH is 12 minutes.
I never drive more than 10 minutes for any errand or shopping.
We have made a lot of really good friends, so many that we're woefully behind on reciprocating invitations so we need to have a big patio party soon.

To be honest, we were really apprehensive, but we've been here 2 years and you couldn't pay us enough to move back to the rat race. I know people will prattle on about museums, etc. but in all honesty, how often did you avail yourself to all the cultural aspects of the city? If you find that yes, you take full advantage of the museums, ballet, theater, etc. then you probably wont' be happy here. If not, you may find you have a lot to gain in a slower paced environment.

To another point, yes, there is the keep up with the Jones' everywhere you go, but the Jones' have less here then they do in DC so keeping up is pretty easy. That and people think its really tacky to talk about how your kid is taking calculus in the 7th grade

The state college system is pretty good. If you are an Iowa resident and your kid scores decently on exams and grades they can go to one of the 3 state universities for peanuts. Most of the Iowa private colleges (including Grinnell where DS is going in the fall) offer Iowa kids generous scholarships just for being Iowan.

All in all, its not for everyone but its worth checking out. West Des Moines is very nice, lots of jobs and tons of growth going on right now.

Good luck

Not OP, but what is the weather like in Iowa? I hate cold and long winters. I've always had that impression of Iowa. But maybe I'm wrong.

Anonymous wrote:I think if you have a pre-existing network there, it can be a great move. A good friend of mine spent 10 years grinding it out in Brooklyn. She moved back to Cleveland about 2 years ago and is loving it - fun art/music scene, cheap and interesting housing stock, as an RN she's making waaaaaaaaay above the median income instead of living paycheck-to-paycheck in NYC, etc.

It can be liberating to be a big fish in a small pond.

What in heaven's name was an RN doing living in Brooklyn? And is she enjoying the kind of guy who lives in Cleveland in terms of dating vs. the NYC guy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved from DC to Cincinnati a couple years ago. We're mostly happy with the decision. We both got pay raises, the parks here are wonderful, and the people are very friendly. We miss access to the ocean, but hopefully a few vacations to the beach can help. The weather is extremely similar to DC, so no change there. Our kids are still really little, and daycare is fairly affordable. We pay $500/week for two kids. All considered, I'm happy we made the move.

No mention of the world class opportunities you have in DC.

NP here. Do you mean jobs? Those opportunities are overstated. For every one opportunity here, there are about a million applicants. Degrees -- even high-level degrees from well-respected institutions -- are meaningless because everyone has them. It's impossible to get ahead without knowing someone. So there's heavy pressure to schmooze.

Or do you mean the world class venues, like the Smithsonian? Well, good luck enjoying a peaceful day when the weather is good. I love the Smithsonian and I love festivals, but I can't take the extreme crowds anymore. I went to some Cherry Blossom events and ended up just getting home as soon as I could. The crowds were so thick, it was oppressive. There are truly wonderful things in downtown DC, but for people like me, who don't do well in heavy crowds, it actually makes DC a worse place to live than some small town because I end up not wanting to do anything or go anywhere because between either the crowded public transit or the horrible traffic and then the huge swarms of people at the event, I ended up exasperated and drained.

You don't have to be for DC or against DC. There are lots of wonderful places to live with different things to offer. I feel like any time someone tries to say nice things about living somewhere else, people come on here and act like DC is the only place in the country where anyone with a brain would want to live, and that's just not true. In fact, I often feel like the politics in DC kind of squash the intellectual potential because *everything* is political. It's impossible to escape it. And even the most open-minded friends I have here also tend to be hyper political and so I always feel guarded in what I say.

I think there are great things about DC, but having worked in DC for years and lived on the outskirts for years, I feel there are also many things about DC that are oppressive. It's a different kind of oppressive than what you find in a small town, but it is still oppressive. I feel like it's impossible to escape politics. Everyone has a cause. Everyone is easily offended. Every word is loaded. Everyone seems "on" all of the time. There is so much intense networking. I feel like people around here collect friends they think will be useful to them in some way. It's very difficult to really know who is genuinely your friend and who will drop you the minute you either disagree or prove not useful.

I even tried spending time in a more new-agey circle. But I found the same kind of dynamic.

And I don't think people in DC are any less judgmental than people in small towns.

I would love to leave DC, but my job is rooted here. My husband has more flexibility because he works for a larger company with offices in different cities. But I would have a difficult time finding the kind of job I have here. Sometimes I regret letting myself get backed into a corner career-wise. It's even hard to move around within the DC area because there are so many applicants, and it seems you really have to have a connection on the inside.

I don't hate DC. But I feel pretty certain I'd be happier somewhere else, somewhere less populated, less congested, more working class, even with a larger percentage of blue collar. I'm sure I'd get frustrated because people are people. But I think I'd have less daily aggravation. The commute, the traffic, the crowds. It's just too much.

Even my friends. They are good people, but they have all become so hyper political and hyper judgmental. It's exhausting.

OP Haven't read any of the replies but my thoughts..

Having lived in the mid-west for 5 years, and having been born and raised here and then retransplanted back to DC after our 5 years in the Mid-West ...

DO IT! There is nothing negative about it.

1) low COL

2) incredibly, genuinely nice people

3) strong employment market in many cities

4) contrary to what I am sure someone said over the last 8 pages - there is not nearly as much racism as there is here in DC. People in the mid-west are very welcoming and open. The lack of AAs in many of the cities doesn't mean that its a racist city or state. It simply means that everyone believes the sterotypes and BS and therefore never even consider the option of moving to one of these perfectly wonderful places.

I am familiar with Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul. Here are my thoughts-

Chicago- more expensive (less than D.C. though)
-you can find diversity in some neighborhoods and suburbs
-good network of Catholic parishes and schools
-much cheaper private school tuition
-first rate cultural experiences
-first rate restaurants

Twin Cities-
-very affordable (both in cities and suburbs)
-strong network of Catholic parishes and schools
-strong private non catholic schools as well
-welcoming of diversity
-low crime
-an abundance of outdoor activities near by
-in state college tuition is cheap and MN is partnered with WI, ND, SD so you could attend UW Madison at in state rates too


*The Lincoln Park neighborhood in Chicago is nice for families as is Lincoln Square. Oak Park is a thriving first ring suburb that embraces diversity but also has great Catholic schools. Western Suburbs like Riverside, La Grange, Hinsdale, Western Springs, River Forest are places to look.

*In Twin Cities- look in South Minneapolis or the Uptown area for Minneapolis, look in Crocus Hill or Highland Park in St. Paul

If it were me, I'd head to where my husband's family is located because family can be irreplaceable. I am just not familiar with Iowa personally.

.

21:19 love how you squeezed that in about your DS going to Grinnell.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have an opinion on Indiana or Ohio?

There are some very different cities in those states. We've had friends who lived in Indianapolis and really liked it.

Anyone have an opinion on Indiana or Ohio?

Not the Midwest by any stretch, but we left DC metro (Arlington) to move to Houston for DH's job. The opportunity presented itself and we just went for it. We have two kids under 4.

I was apprehensive but now I am really liking it, maybe loving it. We have been here for about 7 months. The first few were very tumultuous because we were renting an apartment, then traveled back East back and forth for holiday season, etc. Around Dec we settled into a house in a wonderful, very quaint and family-friendly suburb of Houston. Kids are in an excellent (and CHEAP!) daycare, we have twice the house we had in Arlington, for half the price, and traffic gets "bad" here according to locals but these people have clearly never been on Route 66 any time of day!

People are very nice and the pace is definitely slower. We could not keep up with the Joneses and here it's a non-issue. Also I was never a fan of cold weather so the climate down here suits me fine. It definitely gets hot and humid, but I don't mind that tradeoff since there is no bothering with snow/cold/ice.

Biggest downside is the city itself is a bit ugly and does not have nearly as much to offer as DC (though there are many trendy restaurants). People who say Houston is "cosmopolitan" are either kidding themselves or they haven't spent much time in NY/DC. Truth is we have little desire to go out and be filled with culture in Houston - we are perfectly content to have a nice dinner now and then or go see a movie, and we can go in our area or another nearby suburb to get that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you be a bit more specific about what opinions you would like regarding the midwest? Cost of living will be lower. Living in most urban areas you will be able to get more of a house for the same if not less. What is important to you and your family?

We live in Georgetown right now, for contrast.

I'd like some opinions on culture shock, access to live events, is the pace really slower, will are children have a vastly different experience?

Important to us would be, family time - we like going to live events, sports, music, plays. An active community is a plus, a catholic church with a parochial school would be perfect for us. Less keeping up with the Joneses (We are guilty of being the Joneses and trying to keep up so no judgement here), less pressure on academics (don't take that as we don't care, but our oldest two who are school age are enrolled in one of the "big three" - and parents already discuss ivies). I think my husband feels he is missing out on his childrens lives and wants more free time. I'd love a bigger yard, for a garden in the summer, maybe some backyard chickens! (like I said, we are in the fantasy stage - so thats why I asked for some grounding)

St. Louis.

LOTS of Catholics and tons of parish schools and Catholic High Schools.

Webster Groves, Kirkwood, anything in the Lindbergh or Rockwood school districts.

Clayton is nice too.

Stay away from anything north (daily shootings, sometimes multiple and often involving children)

Some really nice areas like Shaw or Lafayette Square would be desireable except that the north county and north city violence has a bit of creep.

Climate is like NOVA with humidity, plus a minimum of two ice storms per winter.

Very nice people. Not terribly diverse as whites/small numbers of asians/"the Bosnians" tend to live south and west and most blacks tend to live north for lower and working class and north of forty for working/middle class. That will likely be a big change from here. Rockwood will likely have the most diversity with middle/upper middle class families if I were to guess (of course things might have changed)

Drivers are soooo polite compared to here.

OP, two years ago we left DC for Iowa. Both DH and I are born and raised natives so it was a HUGE move not only for us but for our families as well. Here's what we found:
My base salary increased by 40K, my bonus increased 70K
DH salary decreased by 20K, his bonus stayed the same
Private school tuition for two kids dropped from 52K to 12K
Our 4BR, 3BA brand new house with upgraded everything, acre lot and full landscaping in what is considered 'the best' neighborhood cost 525K
We joined the local golf/tennis/swim club for 3K per year
My daughter's music teacher costs $200/semester for private lessons thru the local university's community music program
My commute is 7 minutes, DH is 12 minutes.
I never drive more than 10 minutes for any errand or shopping.
We have made a lot of really good friends, so many that we're woefully behind on reciprocating invitations so we need to have a big patio party soon.

To be honest, we were really apprehensive, but we've been here 2 years and you couldn't pay us enough to move back to the rat race. I know people will prattle on about museums, etc. but in all honesty, how often did you avail yourself to all the cultural aspects of the city? If you find that yes, you take full advantage of the museums, ballet, theater, etc. then you probably wont' be happy here. If not, you may find you have a lot to gain in a slower paced environment.

To another point, yes, there is the keep up with the Jones' everywhere you go, but the Jones' have less here then they do in DC so keeping up is pretty easy. That and people think its really tacky to talk about how your kid is taking calculus in the 7th grade

The state college system is pretty good. If you are an Iowa resident and your kid scores decently on exams and grades they can go to one of the 3 state universities for peanuts. Most of the Iowa private colleges (including Grinnell where DS is going in the fall) offer Iowa kids generous scholarships just for being Iowan.

All in all, its not for everyone but its worth checking out. West Des Moines is very nice, lots of jobs and tons of growth going on right now.

Good luck