Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

So neither of you proposed? And you moved in before you got married? Huh. I'm a 48 year old female and wouldn't have done it your way. By chance, do you have children?

neither proposed but my H wanted to get me a ring because he though people would think he was a cheapskate.
Yes. We moved in before we got married, actually bought a house before too.
We have 2 children. 12 and 15

I can not tell you how many people assumed that I was the one waiting on him. It was a little pathetic. He actually wanted to get married before we bought the house but I really wanted to make sure we could get into a house first, our apartment was pathetic and we did go away to get married, so I could not commit the funds to a vacation over the house. I know... you wouldn't have done it that way.

I think that's great and all FOR YOU. But surely you can understand that there are some women out there who want the big traditional thing. They want the guy to propose, they want to walk down the aisle in a big white fluffy dress with bridesmaids, etc. There is nothing wrong with them and it seems like you think women who want that are somehow not as good as you? I can't figure it out. There is nothing wrong with a woman being like you and being very laid back about it. It's what YOU wanted. Similarly, there is nothing wrong about a woman wanting the big traditional thing. Again its what SHE wants. The problem is when what SHE wants and what HE wants don't match up and she spends wasted years hoping he will change. My friend will never propose to her boyfriend. Not because she doesn't think a woman can do it, but because she realizes there is no point. If he's not ready to propose to her (which he's told her) he's not magically going to be ready because she proposes. Maybe get off your high horse for a second and realize that people have different wants and there is nothing wrong with that.

Anonymous wrote:I think OP's advice is excellent. I will also add

- A woman should be with a man who treats her very well. To be treated well includes mutual respect and support AND a common goal as far as the future of the relationship is concerned.

- A man who loves a woman and wants to marry her will make it very clear in the beginning of the relationship. If the man is not clear in his intention, you are not the wife material for him. You are not a person he wants a future with.

- MOST men are not thinking about marriage unless they are established in their career and financially stable. This is around the age of 27-28 for most men, nowadays. When they do want to marry, they want to marry a woman with good career prospects that can match their own SES. A man without career plans, education or financial stability will never be ready for marriage.

- Women need to understand that having education and career makes them more desirable as a potential mate That is the reason that so many people who meet in law, med or grad school will end up marrying each other.

- Women should spend their early 20's dating and evaluating men as potential mate AND making sure that they are taking care of their own educational and career path.

Women who have plenty of worthy option in their twenties may consider themselves very lucky. Despite of what one "should" or shouldn't do, life doesn't always work out as it should. I think most people's reality is in perpetual conflict with the theory of "should."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post reflects some fucked up notions about a woman's value. As if physical beauty is the beginning and end of what she has to offer. As if it's a good idea for her to "lock in" a life time with a guy who wouldn't want to be with her if she met him in her 30s. As if it's illegal for her to propose.

Date someone who is kind to you. If you love them, marry them. If they don't want to get married & you do, move on to someone else who is kind to you. Repeat as necessary.

The physical beauty is tied directly to fertility. Fertility is the true and perishable asset you have to focus on. We are like people who are born rich and don't understand the nature of our wealth maybe until it is too late and losers and hangers on have 'helped' us waste our asset. But with smart management and focus you can have great happiness and bring wonderful kids into the world, something only we can do. So it is a responsibility too. Those wonderful kids can't get born until we quit wasting our time and set the agenda.

Sounds poetic, but there are plenty ugly and very fertile chicks out there

I think you are missing the point. Young women, be they never so homely, still have attractive aspects to them because they are fertile. Other women may judge them, but young womens' fertility itself is an attraction. Nature does its thing. Women routinely misunderstand and are blind to what their strengths are about. And as far as physical beauty, Nature's whole point in physical beauty is to get some babies going on.

Sadly, I agree. Sadly, because the fertility/beauty window is very short and fleeting. Women have little worth in nature and society once that's gone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

So neither of you proposed? And you moved in before you got married? Huh. I'm a 48 year old female and wouldn't have done it your way. By chance, do you have children?

37yr old female and we moved in together, purchased a house together, converted it to a rental and purchased another house (in thr middle got two dogs) and then got married. We then quickly had kids. All done prior to age 30.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do you do if you're 28 and your bf of 2 years promises to get married but hadn't done anything to prove its going to be a reality?

Why don't you *gasp* TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF and propose to him?

Because most men aren't wired that way. They want to be the pursuer. Marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa. He's got to really want you.

Pursue lots of men, see how many enjoy themselves, report back. Because I think the notion that "men want to be the pursuer" is mostly projection by some women who rather enjoy having men do all the work and take all the risk. And, "marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa"? That's all kinds of fucked up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

So neither of you proposed? And you moved in before you got married? Huh. I'm a 48 year old female and wouldn't have done it your way. By chance, do you have children?

neither proposed but my H wanted to get me a ring because he though people would think he was a cheapskate.
Yes. We moved in before we got married, actually bought a house before too.
We have 2 children. 12 and 15

I can not tell you how many people assumed that I was the one waiting on him. It was a little pathetic. He actually wanted to get married before we bought the house but I really wanted to make sure we could get into a house first, our apartment was pathetic and we did go away to get married, so I could not commit the funds to a vacation over the house. I know... you wouldn't have done it that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
By the way, there are tons of women who look prettier as they age. I.e., Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, Jessica Simpson to name a few.

Wrong and you are absolutely wrong with your three examples. They may look attractive for their ages, but they aren't "looking prettier as they age."

Their main job in life is to look good and so they have access to trainers, dieticians, surgeons, etc., that we can only dream of having.

Now of course there's many examples of women in their late 30s and early 40s who look 5-10 years younger but that is genetics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa.

It does? Please, enlighten us.

Just my life experience. Married to the same man almost 19 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

So neither of you proposed? And you moved in before you got married? Huh. I'm a 48 year old female and wouldn't have done it your way. By chance, do you have children?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do you do if you're 28 and your bf of 2 years promises to get married but hadn't done anything to prove its going to be a reality?

It's a tough call. Do NOT live with him. In your gut do you feel you are "the one" for him? Or do you think he still imagines there could be someone better for him out there and he is still looking? (Or is he pining for an ex?) Do you truly love him, even his faults? Or would you be settling yourself in some way? Is some progress being made such as your meeting more family, planning vacations farther into the future, talking about more serious issues and envisioning a future life together?

I'm not living with him and I do not intend to until after we are married.

He says I'm "the only one for him" and I'm the "love of his life". He's introduced me to his family and told his sister that he is thinking of proposing to me. I don't think he thinks there's someone "better" for him and he certainly isn't looking. I'm just confused since if I am the love of his life, what is he waiting for? Shouldn't he be super excited to start our life together?

It's really frustrating for me since I'm kind of in limbo here. I want to move forward with my life and deepen my relationship with him but I can't because we aren't even engaged! I can't even live with him yet or plan anything else.

We are talking of taking a vacation this year but he's super concerned about the finances.

We do talk about stuff like having children and throw around potential names. He's really sweet and voluntarily helped me out with bills and is talking of getting me a new car etc.

It all sounds good and encouraging in terms of his feelings and intentions toward you. What about how you feel about him? You didn't mention if he is the love of your life?

One thing I would wonder about is that he has needed to help you out with bills and is talking of getting you a new car. Why are you unable to do these things for yourself? Ideally you would be able to stand on your own two feet, be independent, take care of yourself. Otherwise if somehow you do find yourself in a bad marriage, you may be unable to easily get out. I wouldn't say to break up with your BF to become more independent before you even consider marriage, but can you address whatever the issue may be? Further your education, work to pay off debts, improve your credit, etc.? Or maybe you are in a graduate program or something like that, and that is the reason you aren't quite financially independent yet.

The limbo is uncomfortable but I would be patient longer if he is already talking with his sister about proposing to you. I wouldn't agree to marry him if you don't truly love him and he could be an easy way out of your financial burdens, and if you can imagine a better person being out there for you (if you became a better version of yourself).

Anonymous wrote: The universal "problem" these women had was wasting their 20s in a dead end relationship (not necessarily their "fault", one boyfriend was gay, another a serial cheater).

Yes, it was their fault. They chose to be in those relationships.

Anonymous wrote:Marriage works better if the man is more in love with the woman than vice versa.

It does? Please, enlighten us.

Anonymous wrote:I respectfully disagree with your logic OP.

Here's why:

You are implying that a woman's looks begin to go downhill somewhere in her late 20's. For some, this may be true but no women should ever feel like her chances for meeting a man get slimmer the more she ages. Women in their 20's are still trying to figure life out as well as form their own unique identities at this stage. No one should feel as if their best years are so temporary.

While in theory, I agree that a woman should date Mr. Right vs. Mr. Right Now. No one can argue this fact. But the 20's are not the time to start planning marriage and foreverness if you can help it.

The twenties are a time to enjoy one's youth. To live a care-free existence and get to know one's self. Most people do not see themselves getting hitched until their 30's anyway.

By the way, there are tons of women who look prettier as they age. I.e., Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, Jessica Simpson to name a few.

In theory, I agree with you, and ideally one could spend their 20s living carefree and getting to know oneself and then magically find a husband at age 31, baby one and two in mid 30s. But this isn't just about looks declining, it is about the availability of what women generally refer to as eligible men. In my 20s, I knew dozens of great, single men. In my mid-30s, I know none that are single of the never married type that your typical educated DC woman would be thrilled with (I know some great men that are divorced with kids, if you are ok with that).

I know quite a few women who are in their mid-30s who lament the fact they are single and probably will not have a natural family. They are beautiful, successful, smart, fun and total packages, but the simple reality is there really are no men out there of their equals who are still single. The universal "problem" these women had was wasting their 20s in a dead end relationship (not necessarily their "fault", one boyfriend was gay, another a serial cheater).

If you don't want to get married and have biological kids, then OPs advice isn't for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly did not realize women waited for men to propose. This is so odd to me.

How old are you and what is your gender?

45yo female

When I met my H at 23 I told him I was not looking to be serious, we dated on and off, not monogamous.
3 years later when I realized he might be the guy and I was 26 I told him that I wanted to get married evnetually and I was going to look for a monogamous relationship, I asked if he was interested. He said, I am not ready for a commitment. So I said, "Awesome, love you, hope you have a great life". No big awful break-up, I was sad, he was sad.... but life goes on.
8 months later he asked me on a a date and I told him I was not interested unless he was thinking of a monogamous relationship. He said he was.
We were monogamous for 2 years and moved in together, ate mac and cheese and jug wine for the next 2 years and bought a house... got married somewhere in between.

I was never just waiting to be proposed to, I had an idea of what I wanted out of life, I communicated that consistently for years and he had the same goals. When he didn't we were not together.

I guess I am one of those younger women who would eyeball you like an anti-feminist. That being said, I met my DH when I was 27. How old are you OP? I think women approach relationships differently nowadays than they used to. Relationships are more likely to start out as friendships or casual because BOTH sides want it that way, not just the men. I think by the time a woman wants to settle down, then she can take your advice, but most women nowadays are not ready to settle down that early either.