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Anonymous wrote:I can't take anyone seriously when they say that they "heard birth affirmations" as part of their preparation for, or decision to pursue, labor. Sorry. That sounds to me like people that are praying their cancer away. Sure--no harm trying it, but that's not what i'd rely on.

Yeah .. it sounds out there doesn't it? Except stress, muscle tightness, and anxiety can do a lot to make birth harder. I don't care if it's birth affirmations or meditation or lots of prenatal massage, but there's much to be said for addressing the stress and anxiety a lot of us bring to birthing.

That said, I'm with PP who said all the options suck. When labor began with my 3rd I was pretty much "I'm done! Don't want to do this anymore!"

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. I did all the breathing and birth affirmations and I "trusted birth." Until baby had fetal decelerations and they figured out she was malpositioned. All the positive imagery in the world was not going to move her. Though I suppose people like you would blame me for not having "trusted birth" enough to begin with for my body to get her in the right position.

What? NP but stop projecting your issues, you're being way too defensive. She did not say "using proper diaphragmatic breathing and birth affirmations add a GUARANTEED way to have a perfect natural birth, you can overcome any possible complications with them and if you aren't able to have a natural birth you have failed," which seems to be what you heard. She was responding to the other poster who said she discounts anyone who uses affirmations as part of their birth, which is absurd...anxiety, tension and shallow breathing absolutely get in the way of allowing labor to progress, and if you think otherwise you're nuts. Affirmations or mantras can help you get into a good headspace, which absolutely affects your body...and is markedly better than if you go into labor filled with fear or doubt. Not a guarantee, but ridiculous to discount

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't take anyone seriously when they say that they "heard birth affirmations" as part of their preparation for, or decision to pursue, labor. Sorry. That sounds to me like people that are praying their cancer away. Sure--no harm trying it, but that's not what i'd rely on.

Yeah .. it sounds out there doesn't it? Except stress, muscle tightness, and anxiety can do a lot to make birth harder. I don't care if it's birth affirmations or meditation or lots of prenatal massage, but there's much to be said for addressing the stress and anxiety a lot of us bring to birthing.

That said, I'm with PP who said all the options suck. When labor began with my 3rd I was pretty much "I'm done! Don't want to do this anymore!"

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. I did all the breathing and birth affirmations and I "trusted birth." Until baby had fetal decelerations and they figured out she was malpositioned. All the positive imagery in the world was not going to move her. Though I suppose people like you would blame me for not having "trusted birth" enough to begin with for my body to get her in the right position.

Anonymous wrote:I am very happy I went with a VBAC, but I had a very easy, quick birth with zero damage to my body. No tearing, no pelvic floor damage, vagina looks and feels 100% the same as ever. It was a very easy recovery- I was literally walking around, showering etc. hours after giving birth. I found c-section recovery to be difficult personally, and the surgery left me with permanent scarring/skin puckering and pockets of numbness (nerve damage). So my personal VBAC experience was good, but there are so many variables. I will say my OB was very supportive and my delivery nurses were fantastic.

You should consider yourself very, very lucky.

Anonymous wrote:I can't take anyone seriously when they say that they "heard birth affirmations" as part of their preparation for, or decision to pursue, labor. Sorry. That sounds to me like people that are praying their cancer away. Sure--no harm trying it, but that's not what i'd rely on.

Yeah .. it sounds out there doesn't it? Except stress, muscle tightness, and anxiety can do a lot to make birth harder. I don't care if it's birth affirmations or meditation or lots of prenatal massage, but there's much to be said for addressing the stress and anxiety a lot of us bring to birthing.

That said, I'm with PP who said all the options suck. When labor began with my 3rd I was pretty much "I'm done! Don't want to do this anymore!"

I am very happy I went with a VBAC, but I had a very easy, quick birth with zero damage to my body. No tearing, no pelvic floor damage, vagina looks and feels 100% the same as ever. It was a very easy recovery- I was literally walking around, showering etc. hours after giving birth. I found c-section recovery to be difficult personally, and the surgery left me with permanent scarring/skin puckering and pockets of numbness (nerve damage). So my personal VBAC experience was good, but there are so many variables. I will say my OB was very supportive and my delivery nurses were fantastic.

14:09 poster here. I forgot to add--I delivered with the midwives at Medstar WHC and loved them! The entire practice was awesome. Super laid back vibe, but on top of everything, which is totally worked with my style. Highly recommend them!!

1 c-section and had VBAC 2 months ago. No regrets, but I will say that vaginal birth recovery was really tough for me. I had a 2nd degree tear and major hemorrhoids. I couldn't sit/ sit for very long for about a month. Spent a lot of time laying down. That being said, I feel really good now. No residual issues. I felt really good about this time when I had my csection, but thinks. csection with a 4 year old at home would've been tough.

Anonymous wrote:Are you supposed to want a VBAC? Because I didn't at all. Labor was horrible and traumatic and the planned second C was a total breeze by comparison. No issues with a C section shelf and I don't pee when I sneeze!

Two vaginal births (plus a c-section) and I don't either!

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Anonymous wrote:What does your doctor think about your candidacy for a vbac? Also, have you seen this? https://mfmu.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

This calculator is not evidence based . The idea that doctors still use it to make recommendations is laughable

I don't think you know what "evidence based" means.

So plugging info into a calculator and spitting out a percentage is evidence based? Alrighty then

Of course it is. That calculator and those like it are designed to apply evidence-based factors to predict outcomes. Not sure what you think "evidence based" means?

That was interesting. It came out with a much lower chance of success (about 70% than I would have thought). I assume this is based on my age (39) and the fact that I never had a vaginal birth.

It does ask about dilation issues, btw. If I marked "yes" to that question, it lowered my rate to nearly 50% chance of success.

I played around with it a bit. Looks like weight (bmi) plays a major role along with age.

This calculator gives you odds based on population statistics. This should be one small part of the discussion that helps you understand where you lie within a larger population, but individual risk factors carry more weight than these stats. Hopefully that is the conversation doctors are having instead of just relying on this tool to throw out some arbitrary percentage that convinces women they won't be able to do it.

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Anonymous wrote:What does your doctor think about your candidacy for a vbac? Also, have you seen this? https://mfmu.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

This calculator is not evidence based . The idea that doctors still use it to make recommendations is laughable

I don't think you know what "evidence based" means.

So plugging info into a calculator and spitting out a percentage is evidence based? Alrighty then

Of course it is. That calculator and those like it are designed to apply evidence-based factors to predict outcomes. Not sure what you think "evidence based" means?

That was interesting. It came out with a much lower chance of success (about 70% than I would have thought). I assume this is based on my age (39) and the fact that I never had a vaginal birth.

It does ask about dilation issues, btw. If I marked "yes" to that question, it lowered my rate to nearly 50% chance of success.

I played around with it a bit. Looks like weight (bmi) plays a major role along with age.

I'm the pp. I have a normal BMI.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your doctor think about your candidacy for a vbac? Also, have you seen this? https://mfmu.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

This calculator is not evidence based . The idea that doctors still use it to make recommendations is laughable

I don't think you know what "evidence based" means.

So plugging info into a calculator and spitting out a percentage is evidence based? Alrighty then

Of course it is. That calculator and those like it are designed to apply evidence-based factors to predict outcomes. Not sure what you think "evidence based" means?

That was interesting. It came out with a much lower chance of success (about 70% than I would have thought). I assume this is based on my age (39) and the fact that I never had a vaginal birth.

It does ask about dilation issues, btw. If I marked "yes" to that question, it lowered my rate to nearly 50% chance of success.

I played around with it a bit. Looks like weight (bmi) plays a major role along with age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your doctor think about your candidacy for a vbac? Also, have you seen this? https://mfmu.bsc.gwu.edu/PublicBSC/MFMU/VGBirthCalc/vagbirth.html

This calculator is not evidence based . The idea that doctors still use it to make recommendations is laughable

I don't think you know what "evidence based" means.

So plugging info into a calculator and spitting out a percentage is evidence based? Alrighty then

Of course it is. That calculator and those like it are designed to apply evidence-based factors to predict outcomes. Not sure what you think "evidence based" means?

That was interesting. It came out with a much lower chance of success (about 70% than I would have thought). I assume this is based on my age (39) and the fact that I never had a vaginal birth.

It does ask about dilation issues, btw. If I marked "yes" to that question, it lowered my rate to nearly 50% chance of success.

Anonymous wrote:VBAC >>>> CS. I VBAC'd at a freestanding birth centre, totally natural. It is what I wanted. I had prepared a lot for the VBAC, heard birth affirmations, and generally tried to approach it in a positive way. I had a pretty bad 2nd degree tear and don't think the recovery was much easier than a CS. I have to say that OBs tried to discourage me every step of the way, not in an overt way, but through subtle manipulation. I switched practices at 37 weeks and I have to say the whole experience has coloured of how I see the medical profession who often impose their views on patients and don't seem to want to encourage women to have their own views on birth.

So if the recovery wasn't easier than a CS....what exactly makes VBAC so ">>>>" vs. a repeat CS?

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Anonymous wrote:Look OP. There's one poster on here who had a terrible childbirth injury and she's very bitter about it. Instead of seeking therapy, she likes to scare expectant mothers. Speak with your doctor about what's the best choice for your particular circumstances.

WOW. I know you think you are some kind of warrior for natural birth but you are tremendously ignorant. Birth injury is very real and very common. You ought to be able to tolerate hearing this. It does not mean everyone has to have c sections.

NP. No, there really is a woman who posts on here who suffered one of the rarest and most severe vaginal injuries and she posts (posted? Since I had my baby I'm not on here as much) vituperative posts. Yes, birth injuries from vaginal birth are very real - most of us tear to some degree - but she is just relentless and frequently only tangentially related to the topic. I can't even remember what her point was, just that I feel genuine pity for her.

There are actually quite a few of us on here who have suffered such injuries, PP. We are not all the same poster. And sharing our experiences, which, when you look at statistics you will realize are quite common, is something we CAN do to help other women be informed when they go into labor as many of us were not. Op if you do choose a VBAC my advice is to only push for 3 hours and no longer than 4 with an epidural, and to under no circumstances have a forceps delivery. This can help prevent major pelvic floor injuries for which there are few good surgical corrections available.

Thanks for sharing your experience. This isn't just about vaginal birth, but also instrumental (forceps) birth, which is very well known to have higher rates of complications for the mother. All women deserve to be educated about the risk in advance so they can make an informed choice if it comes down to forceps v c section.

The issue is that for some people, there is no "option" at that point due to the baby's position in the birth canal.

Anonymous wrote:You'd regret it if you ruptured or had a horrible shoulder dystocia or were ripped from stem to stern with forceps.

Unfortunately, you can't know any of this in advance. How badly do you want vaginal birth?

I'd never attempt a VBAC without an OB and continuous fetal monitoring in an excellent hospital with a NICU.

This is pretty much off-topic, but, I had all four via c-section (never wanted a vaginal birth). While they were working, I hear, "Huh. You don't usually see that. Push him back in." Shoulder dystocia in a c-section birth!

Of course, from the doc's perspective, I'm sure it was easier to fix than in a vaginal presentation.