Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

To those who have explained the perspective of why people don't entertain, thank you.



If you can not invite people back (for whatever reason) other gestures are appreciated. A mailed thank you note. Offering a ride to the airport. Bringing over something from your garden. Babysitting. Whatever you can afford with your time and money. I think too often people think that others don't care about these manners and etiquette. I think people do care and they do notice when it's not done.

OP, have you ever thought about the fact that some people just don't want to hang out with you that much? We get invited by other people *so much,* and some families are particular culprits of the serial invites. We try to say no when we can, but we don't want to be rude or stand-offish. Our kids have a *lot* of friends, and their many parents are constantly inviting us for dinner, drinks, suggesting outings together etc. It would be rude to say no all the time, and we want our kids to maintain relationships with these other kids. In addition, my husband I have a lot of colleagues, and they also often invite us. Then we also have 2-3 very close friends and family members that we actually *want* to hang out with a regular basis, and that also takes time out of our schedules. To pay off our dues to those who are not very close to us, we try to reciprocate as often as we can, usually with a couple of fairly big brunches or dinners each year. But I really don't want to be hanging out with other people more than 1x a month, and by the time the year is over, we've been invited way more times than we could ever hope to reciprocate. (Also we don't drink alcohol, so many of these events are just boring to us because people get drunk and start to act stupid.) Long story short: some people actually feel burdened by these many invites, simply because they don't like hanging out with casual acquaintances that much.

And that's why I stop inviting people who never reciprocate. I'm not a bean-counter, I don't have people over because I expect an invitation back, but when it becomes clear that the relationship is one-sided, I just stop. So no one has to feel burdened by attending a party hosted by people they apparently don't really like. And I can spend my time and energy on people who DO enjoy my company and who DO want to develop a relationship.

You answered the question in your own post. You like to entertain, so you choose to do it. My neighbors invite us to their big parties (maybe 1-3 a year). We always attend when we can and bring food or drinks, but we have never had them over to our house. We do not entertain at home apart from yearly family gatherings. If we did host events, I would absolutely invite the neighbors. But I’m not going to concoct a party and try to drum up people to come when we are simply not hosts. If your invitation is given only in expectation that we will have you over to a party, I’d rather not be invited. I am not a freeloader and I always ask what I can bring and contribute to the party, and my view is that we go to these events because you like to host and because we both like to socialize together. In my mind it doesn’t matter where we do it and it shouldn’t be a tit for tat tally sheet.

In situations where a friend asks me over for coffee or a daycare parent hosts an individual play date, I absolutely reciprocate.

We like to entertain, do so as much as we can and understand it is not everyone's thing. We don't take it personally at all if someone does not reciprocate. I agree with the poster who said it was like lending money. We view it like a gift and do not expect something back although of course some of our friends do reciprocate.

Anonymous wrote:I don't really enjoy dinner parties but when invited I get a sitter, go, bring something, try to be a charming guest, draw out other guests in conversation, thank the hosts, etc. I feel like I do a good job of it. But I have no desire to host dinner parties at my own house, because they feel kind of stilted and not that fun. I recognize that the hosts have gone to a lot of work, but I also feel like I've done my part.

Maybe people don't like dinner parties as much as you think? I'd rather do something else.

So host people in the way that you like, otherwise you are making an excuse.

Anonymous wrote:Even if people don't like to host in their homes, they should definitely invite you out to a restaurant to reciprocate.

I can’t afford that. I make less than half what most of my friends make. Much less than half. I can’t afford the wines you’re going to order. We don’t eat meat or appetizers when we go out to eat. My friends know we have different means, but I suspect they don’t completely “get” it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are a bean-counter. Accept it. But please try to remind yourself that others are not intentionally setting out to slight you or be unfriendly.

Thank you for your perspective. Not the name calling though - not thanking you for that (does that qualify as said "bean-counting")? LOL

"Bean-counting " is not necessarily pejorative. It is descriptive as to how people view relationships. This is how you view the world - in transactional terms. Not something I particularly enjoy in a friendship, but I also accept that this is an ingrained part of your personality. I'm sure there's some kind of Myers-Briggs kind of scale that maps out how people approach friendships.

But seriously, invite people for dinner because you enjoy cooking. If you don't like it, don't do it. Order in catered food or agree to meet friends at a restaurant. We're not really living in a dinner-party world here. I don't think I've been invited to a sit down dinner in ages, but have been to cookouts. I don't have great outdoor spaces, so I do more "open houses" with a spread of food. If you think some of your friends are "users", drop them. But other than that, I see people when I see people.

It seems like a lot of people really don't understand hospitality (like PP). Hosting something at your home and then hoping for a return invite is not really transactional. I host gatherings so that I and others have an opportunity to socialize. I am providing the effort and means to make a setting for people to enjoy each other. When you endlessly accept invitations and never reciprocate (and if someone enjoys you as a friend, they don't care about your decor, food budget or cooking skills), you are saying that those people are not worth the effort or sacrifice to create an opportunity to get together. You may be fine with that message, but please don't be surprised if people who like you, who are willing to open their homes to you, and who are willing to actually work for your enjoyment are then disappointed when you don't like them as much.

All of the hurdles that people talk about (and there was an extensive thread on this a few weeks ago on "Off-Topic") like house, budget, lack of skills, etc. can be overcome. There are lots of hostesses/hosts on DCUM who could give you suggestions that fit any budget or situation. Obviously a friend going through cancer or a divorce isn't expected to be party planning, but most of the excuses are just rationalizations about why people don't want to extend themselves.

Anonymous wrote:OP, maybe it is a cultural thing? My parents are from another culture that is similar- someone invites you over, you eventually want to reciprocate even if entertaining is not your "thing." I don't think it's as big of a deal in American culture? Like, if you don't want to have a dinner party here, you just don't. There's no "code." I think that's why Americans have a lot of social problems.

Please don't generalize this to American culture. Well, maybe it is the "new" ruder modern culture. Lots of us in many parts of the country grew up experiencing and extending hospitality. We understand that even poor people who lack fancy homes still have friends and still make pots of chili or gumbo, etc. and entertain their friends. And their friends still have fun in homes that are small or cramped or badly decorated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a very small undecorated house. We have had a lot of family issues that financially take priority. I would love to have a bigger, nicer house but that is not our life.

No, I will not babysit in less there is a real last minute emergency if you are not family, close friend or neighbor, take you to the airport (taxi or drive and pay to park which is often cheaper), or jump over hoops to be your friend.

I generally decline as we eat very simply or suggest going out as we have a lot of dietary issues. But, thankfully, none of our friends are like you who are just reaching out to have favors done in return.

OP here. I have said this several times already on this thread, but let me clarify again. These are not "favors" - they are simply suggestions for gestures to show that you value the other person's friendship and are willing to put in some effort into the friendship. You may have other ways of putting in effort into your friendships, and that is great. Please feel free to share.

OP, maybe you have a different definition of friendship than some other people here. My friends are people that I have a very special bond with, that I've known for years and been through significant events with. Just because you recently moved into my neighborhood and keep inviting me over because you need a drinking buddy and babysitting swapper, doesn't mean I'm your friend.

No, this is not about what somone can do for you. When someone reciprocates it shows they give a crap. Funny how these free loaders are always ready to accept an invitation but can't throw a frozen pizza on the table for you. These people are either super cheap, can't be bothered, or are completely clueless. That is it. Don't blame the original poster. She is correct. But then again, today, the world is filled with selfish people.

We have a friend who never reciprocates so I know how you feel. A lot of time and money goes into entertaining. But for those who had harsh remarks for this person, understand that it does not take a lot of time or money to throw a couple of chips and guac on the table, some wine, and maybe throw in a move.

When someone doesn't reciprocate in any way, it really does show that they don't think about it. OR, maybe, like my friend, they are cheap. It has always been a thing...if you get an invitation, you reciprocate. If you can't cook, or the house is a mess, take them out to dinner. OR, don't accept anymore dinner invitations.

I'm with 13:12, in the expectations department. it's the folks who come over, have fun, eat and drink and don't thank the hosts that I wonder about. really, not even a quick text?
I too love to cook, but get a little anxious about the state of our home for entertaining, so really have to make an effort mentally to host. So I get the hesitation to invite people over

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Etiquette around reciprocity, gift-giving, social interactions and hospitality is very cultural.

Yes, in India, reciprocity is very important because it signifies a lot many things and for someone to not reciprocate without extenuating circumstances will lead to subtle negative consequences in their social standing. To reciprocate and to be hospitable - these signify that you are a household without dysfunction. Why? Because to reciprocate you need effort, time, money, know-how (how you were raised), manpower and a functional family life.

The reason that people do not reciprocate in this country is because there is no consequence of not reciprocating. This is not a country without support-network, the government and social services provide the same support in this country to families in need that friends and family provide in India.

Even here, the people who have been raised in communities that were self-reliant are people more willing to lend a helping hand. For example, my neighbor was raised in a farm in the midwest and she is always willing to help out if you have a problem. Be it watering your plants or walking your dog.

Also, many people here have been raised in affluent families where reciprocity was ingrained as part of their social life and they will reciprocate in some other ways - not necessarily calling you for dinners, but helping out in some other way.

You may not realize, but in India, all the social niceties you observed were with only a very small segment of society, the people who were similarly educated and raised like you, and who were also financially able. You were not inviting to dinner the maid who came to clean house every day. In the US, it is hard to understand what the social status and background of anyone is. You cannot make any determination of how a person was raised, what their family life is, how educated they are - because every one is able to afford a basic standard of living. if looking at your neighbors or your colleagues, you are making a determination that they value reciprocity etc, then you will usually be incorrect. Just understand that class is very fluid here and they may not value the same things culturally that you value. My recommendation would be to call for dinner only people who can understand the gesture for what it is and take the cue from you to engage in this social give and take. This may restrict you to only certain groups of people.

For those Indians, who want to figure out how to engage Americans in a social interaction, there are two types of interaction that is well understood and will not leave you frustrated.
- Organize meetups where people come to a restaurant or neutral place and pay for their share of the meal/event.
- Organize potlucks where everyone can make or pickup something from a store.

The above is easier, transnational and more understood by everyone. Also, it does not burden anyone to reciprocate at their homes, or reciprocate at all. Remember, these are cultural differences and you cannot assume people will understand what it means.

- A fellow Indian.

This will open you to all kinds of scorn from some of the good denizens of this forum.

You are correct. Stick to meeting at restaurants and ask for seperate checks. Simple, clean and hassle-free.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Etiquette around reciprocity, gift-giving, social interactions and hospitality is very cultural.

Yes, in India, reciprocity is very important because it signifies a lot many things and for someone to not reciprocate without extenuating circumstances will lead to subtle negative consequences in their social standing. To reciprocate and to be hospitable - these signify that you are a household without dysfunction. Why? Because to reciprocate you need effort, time, money, know-how (how you were raised), manpower and a functional family life.

The reason that people do not reciprocate in this country is because there is no consequence of not reciprocating. This is not a country without support-network, the government and social services provide the same support in this country to families in need that friends and family provide in India.

Even here, the people who have been raised in communities that were self-reliant are people more willing to lend a helping hand. For example, my neighbor was raised in a farm in the midwest and she is always willing to help out if you have a problem. Be it watering your plants or walking your dog.

Also, many people here have been raised in affluent families where reciprocity was ingrained as part of their social life and they will reciprocate in some other ways - not necessarily calling you for dinners, but helping out in some other way.

You may not realize, but in India, all the social niceties you observed were with only a very small segment of society, the people who were similarly educated and raised like you, and who were also financially able. You were not inviting to dinner the maid who came to clean house every day. In the US, it is hard to understand what the social status and background of anyone is. You cannot make any determination of how a person was raised, what their family life is, how educated they are - because every one is able to afford a basic standard of living. if looking at your neighbors or your colleagues, you are making a determination that they value reciprocity etc, then you will usually be incorrect. Just understand that class is very fluid here and they may not value the same things culturally that you value. My recommendation would be to call for dinner only people who can understand the gesture for what it is and take the cue from you to engage in this social give and take. This may restrict you to only certain groups of people.

For those Indians, who want to figure out how to engage Americans in a social interaction, there are two types of interaction that is well understood and will not leave you frustrated.
- Organize meetups where people come to a restaurant or neutral place and pay for their share of the meal/event.
- Organize potlucks where everyone can make or pickup something from a store.

The above is easier, transnational and more understood by everyone. Also, it does not burden anyone to reciprocate at their homes, or reciprocate at all. Remember, these are cultural differences and you cannot assume people will understand what it means.

- A fellow Indian.

This will open you to all kinds of scorn from some of the good denizens of this forum.

OP,

Etiquette around reciprocity, gift-giving, social interactions and hospitality is very cultural.

Yes, in India, reciprocity is very important because it signifies a lot many things and for someone to not reciprocate without extenuating circumstances will lead to subtle negative consequences in their social standing. To reciprocate and to be hospitable - these signify that you are a household without dysfunction. Why? Because to reciprocate you need effort, time, money, know-how (how you were raised), manpower and a functional family life.

The reason that people do not reciprocate in this country is because there is no consequence of not reciprocating. This is not a country without support-network, the government and social services provide the same support in this country to families in need that friends and family provide in India.

Even here, the people who have been raised in communities that were self-reliant are people more willing to lend a helping hand. For example, my neighbor was raised in a farm in the midwest and she is always willing to help out if you have a problem. Be it watering your plants or walking your dog.

Also, many people here have been raised in affluent families where reciprocity was ingrained as part of their social life and they will reciprocate in some other ways - not necessarily calling you for dinners, but helping out in some other way.

You may not realize, but in India, all the social niceties you observed were with only a very small segment of society, the people who were similarly educated and raised like you, and who were also financially able. You were not inviting to dinner the maid who came to clean house every day. In the US, it is hard to understand what the social status and background of anyone is. You cannot make any determination of how a person was raised, what their family life is, how educated they are - because every one is able to afford a basic standard of living. if looking at your neighbors or your colleagues, you are making a determination that they value reciprocity etc, then you will usually be incorrect. Just understand that class is very fluid here and they may not value the same things culturally that you value. My recommendation would be to call for dinner only people who can understand the gesture for what it is and take the cue from you to engage in this social give and take. This may restrict you to only certain groups of people.

For those Indians, who want to figure out how to engage Americans in a social interaction, there are two types of interaction that is well understood and will not leave you frustrated.
- Organize meetups where people come to a restaurant or neutral place and pay for their share of the meal/event.
- Organize potlucks where everyone can make or pickup something from a store.

The above is easier, transnational and more understood by everyone. Also, it does not burden anyone to reciprocate at their homes, or reciprocate at all. Remember, these are cultural differences and you cannot assume people will understand what it means.

- A fellow Indian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a very small undecorated house. We have had a lot of family issues that financially take priority. I would love to have a bigger, nicer house but that is not our life.

No, I will not babysit in less there is a real last minute emergency if you are not family, close friend or neighbor, take you to the airport (taxi or drive and pay to park which is often cheaper), or jump over hoops to be your friend.

I generally decline as we eat very simply or suggest going out as we have a lot of dietary issues. But, thankfully, none of our friends are like you who are just reaching out to have favors done in return.

OP here. I have said this several times already on this thread, but let me clarify again. These are not "favors" - they are simply suggestions for gestures to show that you value the other person's friendship and are willing to put in some effort into the friendship. You may have other ways of putting in effort into your friendships, and that is great. Please feel free to share.

OP, maybe you have a different definition of friendship than some other people here. My friends are people that I have a very special bond with, that I've known for years and been through significant events with. Just because you recently moved into my neighborhood and keep inviting me over because you need a drinking buddy and babysitting swapper, doesn't mean I'm your friend.

Anonymous wrote:And this thread sums up why everyone is not friends with everyone else.