Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread, ladies and germs, is exactly why you should be very careful and never, ever tell.

That sucks though! Because we all walk around each other and pretend it doesn't happen and then when it happens, as it does, as it will, people feel so isolated and alone. Screw "you're a doormat" PPs - I'm sure they're all the vision of happiness.

Anonymous wrote:This thread, ladies and germs, is exactly why you should be very careful and never, ever tell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some observations. Really tired of people talking about the "hard work" of counseling and getting down to the issues. Is it really that difficult to be open and honest with someone on a daily basis? Or you need a counselor to explain to you how to open up? I mean, haven't most of you been dating since HS and experiencing a range of emotions and situations with someone you are romantically involved with?

Also, any post on infidelity should make one understand that every situation is very different. I really hope that I never have an evening where in my situation one of us confesses to an affair because of the breach of trust. If I need an affair in marriage to eventually make us a closer couple, there are bigger problems that I would have been foolish to ignore. What if that evening does happen and I am the one cheated on? 50/50 we would stay together depending on the circumstances. But no f'ing way I would stick around if my spouse and I still had to interact with the other person, even on a limited basis.

Anonymous wrote:Oy. +1. PP is bringing just a liiiiiiiitle bit of baggage to the table. How about this: what if I do my best to believe you when you say you're not bitter, and you do your best to believe me when I say I'm happy I stayed.

I don't talk about this with many people at all, and many people who would consider themselves close to me don't even know, so when someone says "you're a delusional doormat" when I share my experience it actually makes me pause to think "am I?" But when I hugged my husband goodbye this morning and was told I was loved, I didn't feel like one. And when I see my kids tonight over the dinner table, playing games with their Dad, and I get to snuggle up and watch a movie after they're in bed, I'm pretty sure I won't then either. So, try to leave some room for other people's experiences and I'll do the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

Aaaand there's the inevitable "you're a doormat" commentary, because - of course! Way to shore each other up ladies!

I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how long did it take for you to feel okay again if you or your spouse stepped out? Did you go to counseling? If you did, how long did you stay in counseling? Did you stay together or end up splitting? What words of wisdom would you like to tell someone who is going through this and wants to try to stay together? I'm interested in both parties view: the person who stepped out and the innocent spouse.

UH, NEVER.

Yes, we went to counseling and spent tens of thousands of dollars on that. We stayed in counseling for four years.

We are now divorced by the grace of God.

My words of wisdom are: Once a cheater, always a cheater. Unfortunately you failed. You married the wrong kind of person. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to hear, but it's the truth. I look around, and I know many of my friends are married to wonderful (though not perfect) honest, loving men. These friends chose the right person to marry. I did not. I married someone who just pretended to have these qualities.

If you want to stay together, you must know that you will never be able to trust him again. You will always wonder. You will always be scared. Also, you better have a lot of money tucked away from both individual counseling and marital counseling - and none of the good psychologists in this area take insurance.

Also google the statistics about marriage counseling.

I hope I don't sound bitter because I'm not. I'm yet to see a happily married couple who had to go to marital counseling. Though lots of people fake it! Sometimes if enough money is involved, and if you are a woman who never worked and can't support herself, I completely understand this. I just hope your kids will be okay growing up in a household without love and affection between their parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how long did it take for you to feel okay again if you or your spouse stepped out? Did you go to counseling? If you did, how long did you stay in counseling? Did you stay together or end up splitting? What words of wisdom would you like to tell someone who is going through this and wants to try to stay together? I'm interested in both parties view: the person who stepped out and the innocent spouse.

UH, NEVER.

Yes, we went to counseling and spent tens of thousands of dollars on that. We stayed in counseling for four years.

We are now divorced by the grace of God.

My words of wisdom are: Once a cheater, always a cheater. Unfortunately you failed. You married the wrong kind of person. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to hear, but it's the truth. I look around, and I know many of my friends are married to wonderful (though not perfect) honest, loving men. These friends chose the right person to marry. I did not. I married someone who just pretended to have these qualities.

If you want to stay together, you must know that you will never be able to trust him again. You will always wonder. You will always be scared. Also, you better have a lot of money tucked away from both individual counseling and marital counseling - and none of the good psychologists in this area take insurance.

Also google the statistics about marriage counseling.

I hope I don't sound bitter because I'm not. I'm yet to see a happily married couple who had to go to marital counseling. Though lots of people fake it! Sometimes if enough money is involved, and if you are a woman who never worked and can't support herself, I completely understand this. I just hope your kids will be okay growing up in a household without love and affection between their parents.