Anonymous
Post 01/30/2015 08:33     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Chemical castration was not used in the 1920s and aversion therapy was not popularised until the 1940s

Thomas may have been using the German technique of testosterone injections in the belief that he could boost his male hormones and cure himself

I think he was using cocaine or some similar drug. Wonder if Green the valet introduced him to the drug. That may be why the police were watching Green and the reason he was killed. But is Tony Gillingham involved as well?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 22:07     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
England didn't start chemical castration until the 1940s and only if you were convicted.

If Thomas is using hormones that would be lame b/c angst or shame over his sexuality has been pretty non-existent. But who knows. Maybe the writers were inspired by Bruce Jenner's transformation.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 21:02     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does Barrow have some sort of STD?


No. He's trying to cure himself of the gays.


I would appreciate that story line more if they had shown him wrestling with his attraction more. Except for the Bateses, all the staff are celibate, so Barrow isn't anything special.



Original PP here. I agree that it doesn't make sense really. He's never seemed ashamed or regretful of his feelings.


I think because he was in love with Jimmy, who is now gone. Maybe this is his way of trying to get over him?


I think Thomas has most definitely seemed remorseful and mortified that he is gay. Those are the scenes in which I feel so much empathy for him and where he shows his true vulnerability. When Jimmy realized that Thomas was gay and reacted with such utter revulsion, Thomas's self-loathing was palpable. And now, with this chemical castration story line, he's trying so hard to rid himself of those feelings. As nasty as he can be, my heart aches for him.


ugh. I hope you aren't in line to marry Charles Manson, too. (teasing you

Mr. Carlson was the one who expressed his distain in pretty harsh terms. To be fair, Jimmy acted "with such utter revulsion" because he awoke to find Thomas ready to kiss him. That stuff is really scary--getting woken up with some unauthorized person in your space. Some roommate of mine did that to me once--I woke up and she was sitting cross-legged on the foot of my bed, gazing at me, for god knows how long--and it's been 30 years and I'll still never forget it--it still gives me the creeps. It's a little unbelievable to me that Jimmy would have ever gotten over it, and admirable that he did.

Another PP made an interesting point, that if they're all supposed to be celibate, what does it matter? I mean, the Anna/Bates thing is really unusual, so if staff are not supposed to marry--or fall in love--why would Thomas care so much? If he "fixed" himself he'd just be lusting over women, which is still not allowed, apparently.

This to me is the more fascinating and weird thing I learned from DA. That the underclass were denied even a mate or family. That to me is just wild. Like going into a priesthood or nunnery.


Jimmy was clear that he was utterly revoted by Thomas when he first learned Thomas was gay. Even though they ultimately became good friends, Jimmy told Thomas on the day he left DA for good, that he couldn't believe he would ever have become friends with "someone like you". I think a large part of Thomas's "evil" side is reaction to having to keep all of this deep sadness inside. Also, I don't know if the chemical castration would make him desire women - doesn't it essentially just neuter you?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 18:53     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
BTW, love it, 17:38. High art and big hair!
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 18:52     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
No, house staff were not allowed to marry.

If you ever get a chance, watch Manor House:
http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/

Fascinating re-creation of what it would be like upstairs/downstairs.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 17:47     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does Barrow have some sort of STD?


No. He's trying to cure himself of the gays.


I would appreciate that story line more if they had shown him wrestling with his attraction more. Except for the Bateses, all the staff are celibate, so Barrow isn't anything special.



Original PP here. I agree that it doesn't make sense really. He's never seemed ashamed or regretful of his feelings.


I think because he was in love with Jimmy, who is now gone. Maybe this is his way of trying to get over him?


I think Thomas has most definitely seemed remorseful and mortified that he is gay. Those are the scenes in which I feel so much empathy for him and where he shows his true vulnerability. When Jimmy realized that Thomas was gay and reacted with such utter revulsion, Thomas's self-loathing was palpable. And now, with this chemical castration story line, he's trying so hard to rid himself of those feelings. As nasty as he can be, my heart aches for him.


ugh. I hope you aren't in line to marry Charles Manson, too. (teasing you

Mr. Carlson was the one who expressed his distain in pretty harsh terms. To be fair, Jimmy acted "with such utter revulsion" because he awoke to find Thomas ready to kiss him. That stuff is really scary--getting woken up with some unauthorized person in your space. Some roommate of mine did that to me once--I woke up and she was sitting cross-legged on the foot of my bed, gazing at me, for god knows how long--and it's been 30 years and I'll still never forget it--it still gives me the creeps. It's a little unbelievable to me that Jimmy would have ever gotten over it, and admirable that he did.

Another PP made an interesting point, that if they're all supposed to be celibate, what does it matter? I mean, the Anna/Bates thing is really unusual, so if staff are not supposed to marry--or fall in love--why would Thomas care so much? If he "fixed" himself he'd just be lusting over women, which is still not allowed, apparently.

This to me is the more fascinating and weird thing I learned from DA. That the underclass were denied even a mate or family. That to me is just wild. Like going into a priesthood or nunnery.


I don't think they weren't allowed to date or marry, they just didn't have the time for it. They didn't get much time off back then.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 17:41     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does Barrow have some sort of STD?


No. He's trying to cure himself of the gays.


I would appreciate that story line more if they had shown him wrestling with his attraction more. Except for the Bateses, all the staff are celibate, so Barrow isn't anything special.



Original PP here. I agree that it doesn't make sense really. He's never seemed ashamed or regretful of his feelings.


I think because he was in love with Jimmy, who is now gone. Maybe this is his way of trying to get over him?


I think Thomas has most definitely seemed remorseful and mortified that he is gay. Those are the scenes in which I feel so much empathy for him and where he shows his true vulnerability. When Jimmy realized that Thomas was gay and reacted with such utter revulsion, Thomas's self-loathing was palpable. And now, with this chemical castration story line, he's trying so hard to rid himself of those feelings. As nasty as he can be, my heart aches for him.


ugh. I hope you aren't in line to marry Charles Manson, too. (teasing you

Mr. Carlson was the one who expressed his distain in pretty harsh terms. To be fair, Jimmy acted "with such utter revulsion" because he awoke to find Thomas ready to kiss him. That stuff is really scary--getting woken up with some unauthorized person in your space. Some roommate of mine did that to me once--I woke up and she was sitting cross-legged on the foot of my bed, gazing at me, for god knows how long--and it's been 30 years and I'll still never forget it--it still gives me the creeps. It's a little unbelievable to me that Jimmy would have ever gotten over it, and admirable that he did.

Another PP made an interesting point, that if they're all supposed to be celibate, what does it matter? I mean, the Anna/Bates thing is really unusual, so if staff are not supposed to marry--or fall in love--why would Thomas care so much? If he "fixed" himself he'd just be lusting over women, which is still not allowed, apparently.

This to me is the more fascinating and weird thing I learned from DA. That the underclass were denied even a mate or family. That to me is just wild. Like going into a priesthood or nunnery.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 17:38     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes that brings up, what's Edith to do? I mean, if she
'fesses up and takes her child back now, the kid would feel ripped away from her parents. It's sort of too late…if her lover comes back and they successfully deal with the legalities, I'm sure Edith would demand that Marigold come back.

Interesting that DHs watch with some of you. My DH hates this show for a few reasons. One is that it's so slow moving ("it's like watching a rock garden, then everyone gets excited when a rock moves an inch."

But more interesting to me is that he is so annoyed by the fakery of it all. He is very much a history buff, (so besides the crazy timeline problems) he doesn't like the "enlightened" way the characters act. For instance, the Tom storyline. He says IRL Tom would not be so well-spoken and gentlemanly, and there is no way he'd be welcomed into the Downton Upstairs fold. It just didn't happen. He cited someone (Prince Ferdinand or Franz Joseph? I'll have to check) who married someone named Sofia/Sophia who was from an upper crust family but not upper crust enough, and how she was excluded at events etc.



Just tell him to lighten up. It's a trashy soap like Dynasty or Falcon Crest. Just with better costumes. No one thinks it's "art."


Wait...what? Dynasty and Falcon Crest weren't art?


No, they were HIGH art!
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 17:22     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes that brings up, what's Edith to do? I mean, if she
'fesses up and takes her child back now, the kid would feel ripped away from her parents. It's sort of too late…if her lover comes back and they successfully deal with the legalities, I'm sure Edith would demand that Marigold come back.

Interesting that DHs watch with some of you. My DH hates this show for a few reasons. One is that it's so slow moving ("it's like watching a rock garden, then everyone gets excited when a rock moves an inch."

But more interesting to me is that he is so annoyed by the fakery of it all. He is very much a history buff, (so besides the crazy timeline problems) he doesn't like the "enlightened" way the characters act. For instance, the Tom storyline. He says IRL Tom would not be so well-spoken and gentlemanly, and there is no way he'd be welcomed into the Downton Upstairs fold. It just didn't happen. He cited someone (Prince Ferdinand or Franz Joseph? I'll have to check) who married someone named Sofia/Sophia who was from an upper crust family but not upper crust enough, and how she was excluded at events etc.



Just tell him to lighten up. It's a trashy soap like Dynasty or Falcon Crest. Just with better costumes. No one thinks it's "art."


Wait...what? Dynasty and Falcon Crest weren't art?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 14:00     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:Yes that brings up, what's Edith to do? I mean, if she
'fesses up and takes her child back now, the kid would feel ripped away from her parents. It's sort of too late…if her lover comes back and they successfully deal with the legalities, I'm sure Edith would demand that Marigold come back.

Interesting that DHs watch with some of you. My DH hates this show for a few reasons. One is that it's so slow moving ("it's like watching a rock garden, then everyone gets excited when a rock moves an inch."

But more interesting to me is that he is so annoyed by the fakery of it all. He is very much a history buff, (so besides the crazy timeline problems) he doesn't like the "enlightened" way the characters act. For instance, the Tom storyline. He says IRL Tom would not be so well-spoken and gentlemanly, and there is no way he'd be welcomed into the Downton Upstairs fold. It just didn't happen. He cited someone (Prince Ferdinand or Franz Joseph? I'll have to check) who married someone named Sofia/Sophia who was from an upper crust family but not upper crust enough, and how she was excluded at events etc.



Just tell him to lighten up. It's a trashy soap like Dynasty or Falcon Crest. Just with better costumes. No one thinks it's "art."
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 13:59     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:Tom with Rose. I like that.

An interesting read if you like Isis. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/programs/features/spotlight/downton-abbey-s4-unsung-heroes-isis/


I've thought Tom and Rose would be a good match too. It's strange to me that the writers haven't had any love interests (beyond the black jazz singer) for Rose. No serious suitors? Seems strange.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 13:57     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lord Gantham is an ass. He blew Cora's family's money and gets all jealous of the art dealer when he was the one who cheated on Cora with a young house maid who he then fired. He is only relevant because of his family's social status. Turds like that should be working sun up to sun down hammering rocks and digging holes.


He didn't cheat with the house maid. He just thought about it.


They kissed. It was at least cheaty.


True! And yet he's so hypocritical about the mild flirtation between Cora and the art dealer. He is really starting to annoy me.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 13:52     Subject: Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does Barrow have some sort of STD?


No. He's trying to cure himself of the gays.


I would appreciate that story line more if they had shown him wrestling with his attraction more. Except for the Bateses, all the staff are celibate, so Barrow isn't anything special.



Original PP here. I agree that it doesn't make sense really. He's never seemed ashamed or regretful of his feelings.


I think because he was in love with Jimmy, who is now gone. Maybe this is his way of trying to get over him?


I think Thomas has most definitely seemed remorseful and mortified that he is gay. Those are the scenes in which I feel so much empathy for him and where he shows his true vulnerability. When Jimmy realized that Thomas was gay and reacted with such utter revulsion, Thomas's self-loathing was palpable. And now, with this chemical castration story line, he's trying so hard to rid himself of those feelings. As nasty as he can be, my heart aches for him.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 11:43     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
The next season is going to be the last one! Gah! No more imperious looks from Mr. Carlson! No more sad faces from Edith! No more quips between the dowager and Ms. Crawley!

http://us.hellomagazine.com/film/2015012923120/downton-abbey-to-end-after-sixth-series/
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 11:20     Subject: Re:Downton Abbey (1/28) (spoiler alert!)
Doesn't anyone want to discuss that the constable threw suspicion on Anna for Green's death at the end? I think she'll get accused and Bates will fess to it. Maybe about that time, she gets pregnant and they have to deal with that. Then, they someone figure out that Tony did it because Green knew he wanted Mary for nefarious reasons, whatever they turn out to be.

As for Edith, I think she'll snatch the baby and run off to Germany, only then to discover her Jewish roots, and she and Marigold will have to be rescued, whether or not the baby daddy is a brown shirt.

Will they find the missing Princess as a madam in Hong Kong?

I have a whole new appreciation of Merton after his proposal.