Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 20:05     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:

The federal government has overreached and is now being called on the carpet for doing so. We now have a Republican Congress because that is the will of the people. Do you wonder why?


I have my ideas about why, but they don't include constitutional overreach on the part of the Department of Education.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 19:19     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?

Okay, let me give you an example of a local economy. My family is from Minnesota. My relatives work in the food industry. This is not just 20 guys. My brother-in-law is a maintenance mechanic for machines in a plant that employs 1500 people. That means he fixes the machines that are specialized to the cereal business. He has been complaining nonstop about finding help because they are not training kids in vocational programs in high schools. They can't find people to do this work (and it is high paying and has good benefits). Now, I would say that this is a local job (since the farms and food production are concentrated in this area). I don't think people who do his work need a college degree (he doesn't have one---he has trained in Germany on machines and had other training though). He has been doing this work for over 40 years (he started at Carnation Company and has been in two other plants and is now with Post). These are jobs that are just as important to the economy as any that college educated people are doing.


Good example. But, the people on DCUM mostly seem to think that you either have a professional job or work in the service industry.




Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 19:10     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
The local jobs are being automated, 200 miners replaced by 20 - guys who WILL need the college degrees. You aren't providing any opportunity for the other 180 with your "education based on the local economy."


Okay, let me give you an example of a local economy. My family is from Minnesota. My relatives work in the food industry. This is not just 20 guys. My brother-in-law is a maintenance mechanic for machines in a plant that employs 1500 people. That means he fixes the machines that are specialized to the cereal business. He has been complaining nonstop about finding help because they are not training kids in vocational programs in high schools. They can't find people to do this work (and it is high paying and has good benefits). Now, I would say that this is a local job (since the farms and food production are concentrated in this area). I don't think people who do his work need a college degree (he doesn't have one---he has trained in Germany on machines and had other training though). He has been doing this work for over 40 years (he started at Carnation Company and has been in two other plants and is now with Post). These are jobs that are just as important to the economy as any that college educated people are doing.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 18:28     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:
Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.



You obviously do not know much about mining. It's not using picks and axes and shovels anymore. Like manufacturing, high tech has come to mining. There are college degrees in mining and the related geology and engineering fields.

That said, there is nothing wrong with vocational education (and it usually means more than 5th grade). I'm sure you are jesting.


The local jobs are being automated, 200 miners replaced by 20 - guys who WILL need the college degrees. You aren't providing any opportunity for the other 180 with your "education based on the local economy."
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 18:25     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?




Answer me this: How would one state or locality's education priorities legitimately be so tremendously different than another's?



It doesn't matter what the educational priorities are of the states. The fact is that the states and the local school boards are in charge of education within their borders, NOT the federal government. This is called FEDERALISM. The federal government (through the DOE) has violated the constitutional rights of the states and of the citizens of the states. The states and localities have a LEGITIMATE right to control the systems of education within their borders.

The federal government has overreached and is now being called on the carpet for doing so. We now have a Republican Congress because that is the will of the people. Do you wonder why?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 14:52     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:

Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.

So let's just screw them out of any higher potential or better opportunities, shall we?


No one said that. There are lots of factors that impact. Here's a little one that's not affected by these laws: do you really need driver's ed in NYC?



Is the federal government requiring driver's education in New York City?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 14:42     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.

So let's just screw them out of any higher potential or better opportunities, shall we?



Part of the problem has nothing to do with education. It has to do with the fact that people in coal mining are not paid enough. Would you say we were screwing them if they got paid $100K a year (which seems to be the middle class now)? Would they be screwed if they got health care and decent housing and career promotions and free community college if they desired to continue in school? Maybe NCLB can't do it all. Maybe there are deeper structural challenges in the economy that testing in grades K-12 cannot overcome. Maybe NCLB is a bandaid and we need a new leg.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 14:37     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.



You obviously do not know much about mining. It's not using picks and axes and shovels anymore. Like manufacturing, high tech has come to mining. There are college degrees in mining and the related geology and engineering fields.

That said, there is nothing wrong with vocational education (and it usually means more than 5th grade). I'm sure you are jesting.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 13:09     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?

Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.

So let's just screw them out of any higher potential or better opportunities, shall we?


No one said that. There are lots of factors that impact. Here's a little one that's not affected by these laws: do you really need driver's ed in NYC?




Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 12:46     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:The types of jobs that kids are likely to get.


Oh, I see - so if the local economy is nothing but coal mining, kids won't really need anything beyond 5th grade math and language skills.

So let's just screw them out of any higher potential or better opportunities, shall we?
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 08:06     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
The types of jobs that kids are likely to get.
Anonymous
Post 01/29/2015 07:51     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:

Answer me this: How would one state or locality's education priorities legitimately be so tremendously different than another's?


The local industries could affect the priorities.



How?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 21:52     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?

Answer me this: How would one state or locality's education priorities legitimately be so tremendously different than another's?


The local industries could affect the priorities.





Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 21:48     Subject: roll back NCLB?
Answer me this: How would one state or locality's education priorities legitimately be so tremendously different than another's?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 17:31     Subject: Re:roll back NCLB?
Anonymous wrote:





This link shows the timeline on the NCLB waivers and how they have been approved (or not). It gives some insight into the tension between the state DOE's and the federal DOE. It's very interesting to note how Texas really doesn't care what the feds tell them and apparently Washington state is not all too concerned with federal mandates either.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/nclb-w...ine-and-glossary-of-terms.html


What a messed up agency. And people want to give them more power. Eliminate Dept of Education now and repeal NCLB. Go back to state run education. This is a mess.

Agree 100%. I have no problem with testing but it should be based on state and local priorities. Eliminate the Federal DoE completely and use the money for teacher raises..