Anonymous wrote:The discussion was about the school system, not the student. Where the school system is concerned, there are at least laws, requirements, legal mandates for special needs, there are dedicated funds, dedicated staff and resources, and legal recourses for special needs families. And, there are many specialists who will help special needs parents navigate and advocate on their behalf.

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Where, pray tell, are all these specialists that will help special needs parents? Seriously. We've paid our consultant (who works for parents of 'gifted' kids as well) nearly $10K over the years. I, and many others on the SN forum, would love to learn where we can access these specialists you seem to know about.

The reason there are laws regarding special education is because the SN community was able to document how the rights of the learning disabled/SN students were being violated. If you want similar laws for advanced learners, you need to be able to demonstrate how their rights are being violated. Would it be great to teach to the potential of each child? Certainly, but unlikely to happen given the cost. Sometimes you just have to accept 'good enough'. The standard for pubic education is a 'floor', not a 'ceiling'.

The discussion was about the school system, not the student. Where the school system is concerned, there are at least laws, requirements, legal mandates for special needs, there are dedicated funds, dedicated staff and resources, and legal recourses for special needs families. And, there are many specialists who will help special needs parents navigate and advocate on their behalf.

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately the issue is a one-size-fits-all approach, geared to the students in the middle - and the ones at the top and the ones at the bottom are the ones that lose out and suffer the most. Sure, it sucks for all but it sucks a lot more for special needs kids and for advanced learners. Special needs got some additional legal protections to lessen their suck factor. That leaves the area of greatest suck factor to be with the advanced learners. It doesn't take statistics to understand that.

I beg to differ, even with the laws having a child with special needs "sucks" more than being the parent of an advanced learner. Schools do not as a rule do what the laws says they must, unless pushed by parents who have done their research and push hard (often having to hire consultants to help) and even then the parents have to pick their battles. IME, the law sets the ceiling for children with special needs and the parents need to be vigilant to try to get as close to the ceiling as possible.

Plus, once school is over, the child with special needs still has to contend with their special needs. The advanced learner (without special needs) is far luckier.

Ultimately the issue is a one-size-fits-all approach, geared to the students in the middle - and the ones at the top and the ones at the bottom are the ones that lose out and suffer the most. Sure, it sucks for all but it sucks a lot more for special needs kids and for advanced learners. Special needs got some additional legal protections to lessen their suck factor. That leaves the area of greatest suck factor to be with the advanced learners. It doesn't take statistics to understand that.

Anonymous wrote:Hey, 7:07, what about all of us who live in DC and are stuck with DCPS and who are trying to get DCPS to improve!

Even you just acknowledged that DCPS is a joke, that what they have is piecemeal, demonstrating that your continued halfbaked disagreement and denial is disingenuous.

I get that you aren't concerned with the problem, probably because your own district is doing a better job than DCPS, and/or that you are more concerned with special needs (and nobody here ever said that special needs wasn't also a concern and nothing anyone has said takes anything away from special needs) but your own lack of care or concern for other part of the spectrum of educational needs certainly doesn't make everyone else's problems go away!

Sure I think DC schools suck but i have no stats to quote. I also don't think DC it's just a "gifted" issue. It sucks for all students, none more so than special ed kids. If you want to change it, hold your elected officials accountable. File a lawsuit. But, you're still going to have to back it up with facts not just the number of DCUM threads, passionate though they are.

Hey, 7:07, what about all of us who live in DC and are stuck with DCPS and who are trying to get DCPS to improve!

Even you just acknowledged that DCPS is a joke, that what they have is piecemeal, demonstrating that your continued halfbaked disagreement and denial is disingenuous.

I get that you aren't concerned with the problem, probably because your own district is doing a better job than DCPS, and/or that you are more concerned with special needs (and nobody here ever said that special needs wasn't also a concern and nothing anyone has said takes anything away from special needs) but your own lack of care or concern for other part of the spectrum of educational needs certainly doesn't make everyone else's problems go away!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, the obtuse person(s) denying it are *definitely* the ones living under a rock. Why do you think so many school districts have G&T programs? Do you think that just happened on its own? No, it happened through advocacy. Look at any of the G&T threads on DCUM and you will see a great deal of intensity. Deniability is not even remotely plausible.

?? If there's already advanced programs available then why do you continue to prattle on about it?

Yes, they exist, but are very piecemeal and of greatly varying quality and substance. For example, they are virtually nonexistent in DC.

Look, if you're going to argue about something, you could at least educate yourself a bit on the thing you are arguing about rather than accusing people of "prattling on" when it's pretty clear you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

The reason it's called 'prattling' is that you provide nothing but your opinion and DCUM to back up your claims. You are not persuasive. You are emotional, inflammatory and near hysterical. You're easy to dismiss. And, using DCPS as an example of what's missing in education is laughable. DCPS is the definition of piecemeal, varying in quality and substance. Special education was so bad that it was under court supervision for years. Now, THAT is a real problem I've got sympathy for. If it's so bad, either move so you're in a better school, file a lawsuit, organize an advocacy group that will at least do some real research or expect people to dismiss you when you prattle on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, the obtuse person(s) denying it are *definitely* the ones living under a rock. Why do you think so many school districts have G&T programs? Do you think that just happened on its own? No, it happened through advocacy. Look at any of the G&T threads on DCUM and you will see a great deal of intensity. Deniability is not even remotely plausible.

?? If there's already advanced programs available then why do you continue to prattle on about it?

Yes, they exist, but are very piecemeal and of greatly varying quality and substance. For example, they are virtually nonexistent in DC.

Look, if you're going to argue about something, you could at least educate yourself a bit on the thing you are arguing about rather than accusing people of "prattling on" when it's pretty clear you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:No, the obtuse person(s) denying it are *definitely* the ones living under a rock. Why do you think so many school districts have G&T programs? Do you think that just happened on its own? No, it happened through advocacy. Look at any of the G&T threads on DCUM and you will see a great deal of intensity. Deniability is not even remotely plausible.

?? If there's already advanced programs available then why do you continue to prattle on about it?

No, the obtuse person(s) denying it are *definitely* the ones living under a rock. Why do you think so many school districts have G&T programs? Do you think that just happened on its own? No, it happened through advocacy. Look at any of the G&T threads on DCUM and you will see a great deal of intensity. Deniability is not even remotely plausible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They *ARE* agitating - there has been thread after thread, post after post here on DCUM alone about it. The only thing you have been selling here is denial and ignorance. The case FOR it has been made again and again. YOU have not made YOUR case against it.

Agitating? Posting anonymously on DCUM?

No, it has been raised with school districts, with legislators, et cetera.

You must live under a rock.

Not the PP you're responding to but probably under the same rock. Then again, when you provide nothing more than your emotional, anecdotal and exaggerated opinions, it's hard not to dismiss you as a crank who expects a school to do her work for her.

Anonymous wrote:

They *ARE* agitating - there has been thread after thread, post after post here on DCUM alone about it. The only thing you have been selling here is denial and ignorance. The case FOR it has been made again and again. YOU have not made YOUR case against it.

Agitating? Posting anonymously on DCUM?

No, it has been raised with school districts, with legislators, et cetera.

You must live under a rock.

They *ARE* agitating - there has been thread after thread, post after post here on DCUM alone about it. The only thing you have been selling here is denial and ignorance. The case FOR it has been made again and again. YOU have not made YOUR case against it.

Agitating? Posting anonymously on DCUM?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your child is sitting there twiddling her thumbs, there is a serious problem with the teacher. Talk to the teacher and then go up the chain. However, be prepared--the teacher may have documentation that shows your child is not as smart as you say.

It's far more widespread than you think. And, when the kid's getting straight A's and tests as high IQ but is bored in shitless in school, it's definitely the school's problem. Blaming the victim isn't going to get you very far there.

If it were as widespread as you imagine, why am I not hearing parents advocating and agitating as the parents of kids with disabilities do. How do you think they got IDEA passed? If you're not up for doing it on a state/national level then hire an education consultant like many of the SN parents have to do. You think there's a problem, stop bitching on DCUM and do something about it. But, you'll need to get some professional help becuase you're not selling your case.

They *ARE* agitating - there has been thread after thread, post after post here on DCUM alone about it. The only thing you have been selling here is denial and ignorance. The case FOR it has been made again and again. YOU have not made YOUR case against it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your child is sitting there twiddling her thumbs, there is a serious problem with the teacher. Talk to the teacher and then go up the chain. However, be prepared--the teacher may have documentation that shows your child is not as smart as you say.

It's far more widespread than you think. And, when the kid's getting straight A's and tests as high IQ but is bored in shitless in school, it's definitely the school's problem. Blaming the victim isn't going to get you very far there.

If it were as widespread as you imagine, why am I not hearing parents advocating and agitating as the parents of kids with disabilities do. How do you think they got IDEA passed? If you're not up for doing it on a state/national level then hire an education consultant like many of the SN parents have to do. You think there's a problem, stop bitching on DCUM and do something about it. But, you'll need to get some professional help becuase you're not selling your case.