Anonymous wrote:That's too bad. Why isn't the program being implemented at all next year?

Not sure when (if?) FCPS will evaluate the pilot at Oakton (and other schools?) for the first year part (AP Seminar). Then they have to introduce AP Research (second year part).

That's too bad. Why isn't the program being implemented at all next year?

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Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe the poster wants to raise awareness of the cost differential. Going to your school board member doesn't have to be the only way to express your views.

And I am voicing my opinion that I am tired of hearing about this debate on this forum and that I think it serves little purpose other than venting.

I'm the poster who raised the cost issue again. I have a grade school child, so I'm not sure how much of an influence I am with high school issues, but I will mention it. At the grade school level we have many more pressing issues to deal with though and I can't be complaining about everything to them. The push to the school board really has to be from middle and high school students and their parents. Also, I think it does need more awareness, especially since one poster didn't even know there was such a big cost difference. At one point, perhaps IB was needed, but now with the new AP option and the lack of funds at all grade levels, I think it should be reconsidered or at least evaluated.

It is my understanding that there are IB schools in neighboring jurisdictions and the AP capstone program is merely being piloted. So it is at least two years before students at Oakton HS (and anywhere else?) would begin to take the AP seminar course. So by the time students go through at Oakton, and FCPS assesses how the pilot worked, it is at least five years from now.

So yes, a comparison may be done, but it is likely in 2019-2020 at the earliest.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe the poster wants to raise awareness of the cost differential. Going to your school board member doesn't have to be the only way to express your views.

And I am voicing my opinion that I am tired of hearing about this debate on this forum and that I think it serves little purpose other than venting.

I'm the poster who raised the cost issue again. I have a grade school child, so I'm not sure how much of an influence I am with high school issues, but I will mention it. At the grade school level we have many more pressing issues to deal with though and I can't be complaining about everything to them. The push to the school board really has to be from middle and high school students and their parents. Also, I think it does need more awareness, especially since one poster didn't even know there was such a big cost difference. At one point, perhaps IB was needed, but now with the new AP option and the lack of funds at all grade levels, I think it should be reconsidered or at least evaluated.

I think the issue is about much more than cost. As a parent or student entering HS, the cost is not my concern. The value of the experience -- i.e. how much reward will I get for my effort, and the flexibility of the program (i.e. how much can I pick and choose the areas I'm interested in doing advanced work) -- those are the things that matter to parents and students.

As much as I would like to be open to IB, it seems large and cumbersome and not as flexible. Why would my child want to take a 2 yr. course rather than a one year course? Depth of experience? Nahhhh. That's not gonna do it. It's too long of a commitment. Who knows what will change in those two years. And then to have all of the exams at the end of senior year? Again, why would I choose that? The fact that AP is a la carte, makes it much more flexible, and to me, a much better choice for my children.

IB may be superior in developing in depth thinking and writing skills, but the flexibility and duration of AP programs are preferable for my kids.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe the poster wants to raise awareness of the cost differential. Going to your school board member doesn't have to be the only way to express your views.

And I am voicing my opinion that I am tired of hearing about this debate on this forum and that I think it serves little purpose other than venting.

No one is forcing you to read the thread, and it seems to be a topic of continuing interest for a variety of reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe the poster wants to raise awareness of the cost differential. Going to your school board member doesn't have to be the only way to express your views.

And I am voicing my opinion that I am tired of hearing about this debate on this forum and that I think it serves little purpose other than venting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe the poster wants to raise awareness of the cost differential. Going to your school board member doesn't have to be the only way to express your views.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole AP/IB debate is getting quite stale. Have your child take the most challenging courses they desire at the high school that is offered to them. If that is AP, fine. If that is IB, fine. If it is honors, fine. If it is (gasp) regular courses, fine. The endless need of people on this forum to justify why one is better than the other seems to be more of a pride issue than anything else. I took more AP courses than I can remember when I was in high school. Once you get to college, guess what? Nobody cares whether you took AP, IB, honors, homeschool, whatever. All they care is how you perform once in you're in college. And, if you go to decent college, no amount of AP or IB is going to fully prepare you - you're going to be challenged even further beyond those high school courses.

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

I agree, and this point has been made countless times on this forum It is what it is. If someone doesn't like it, go talk to your school board member and say you want it changed.

Maybe this is a long shot, but sometimes students and recent former students post on DCUM. It would be of interest, to those families whose MS kids might choose between AP and IB, to hear from some current or former FCPS students who made that choice -- who either chose to move to an IB school rather than do AP, or chose to move to an AP school rather than do IB. Why did you make the choice you made, and what are (or were) your experiences with your courses?

Anonymous wrote:Some facts to keep in mind:

1. Every one of the highest ranked schoos in FCPS has AP, and not one has parents actively lobbying for IB.

2. IB schools are primarily concentrated in low-income areas where parents are less likely to advocate aggressively for their children's interests, but instead are grateful their children are receiving a free public education.

3. FCPS has not added IB to any of the newer high schools in the county - Centreville, Westfield or South County. Every new IB program is at the elementary or middle school level and intended to shore up struggling IB diploma programs at the feeder high schools.

4. When FCPS moved kids from AP schools to South Lakes, an IB school, parents were furious, not happy about the purported advantages of IB. Some houses in the neighborhoods affected immediately lost substantial market value and have never recovered, seven years later.

5. Loudoun tries to emulate FCPS in many respects, but has not introduced IB at a single high school.

I am trying to gather fact here - IB sounds like complete B.S.

Expensive waste of money, but with dedicated IB coordinators at every IB high school (vs .17 of a staff position at every AP high school), there certainly is a larger pool of people available to argue that IB is a good program. The jobs of the IB coordinators literally depend upon it, regardless of what parents and students prefer.

Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in hearing from parents of IB students whether they would have been happy with the AP capstone program as opposed to IB. Since it's new, maybe the board just needs to hear whether the two programs are comparable.

I would be happy with AP capstone. Our school has IB (Marshall) and it's a great school, so my dd is doing IB. Our alternative would be AP at Falls Church which is really not a great option. We have been happy with IB and my dd is learning phenomenal material.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

First, it costs lots more. Poor return on money spent.

Really? What are the cost differences?

Never mind -- found it. From the FY 2015 Program Budget --

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/documents/approved/FY15/ProgramBudgetFY15.pdf

Advanced Placement is on page 54
$3.7 M for 3.7 positions, 17 sites and serving roughly 17K students

International Baccalaureate is on page 58
$3.3 M for 9 positions, 8 sites and serving roughly 6K students

Anonymous wrote:

I think the issue is the IB costs more than AP for the county to implement, so if there is no need for it, why not put the money towards something else?

First, it costs lots more. Poor return on money spent.

Really? What are the cost differences?