Anonymous wrote:If the Orthodox belief system is hostile to women, non-Jews and gays, how do you attempt to justify the reasons why you stay and why you'd raise your children in such a backward environment?

I lived in a predominantly Jewish (mostly Orthodox) area.

insular and arrogant

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I never said hostile, I said unfair. Many parts of life are unfair. There are parts that are unfair to men as well. People sacrifice fairness for other things like community, belief system, a desire to achieve more in life, etc.

I don't believe I am insular or arrogant and have said nothing to deserve name calling.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Well, its quite possible the ISIS doesnt think you represent Islam and doesnt think that you speak for Muslims. Moderates must acknowledge the parts of the religion (and this is true of all religions) that are open to interpretation and extremism. Otherwise, the "perfection" of the religion becomes infallible and the extremists prevail.

Well they have been rejected by all reputable Muslim scholars and Theologians. Their actions are against Islam so ya they might think of me as a kuffar but it doesn't make them right. Btw, I don't like the term moderate Muslim, it somehow implies that Islam is only acceptable when it is diluted and that Orthodox Islam is violent or extreme. Muslims are just Muslims, some follow their religion, others don't. Same with all religions. There are practicing Christians and non practicing Christians. I wouldn't call them radical Christians or moderate Christians. The irony is Islam in itself is moderate so the term moderate Muslim is redundant.....

Well since you say so...

male created
male dominated

And that's why religion is STILL the biggest form of control all over the world.

If the Orthodox belief system is hostile to women, non-Jews and gays, how do you attempt to justify the reasons why you stay and why you'd raise your children in such a backward environment?

I lived in a predominantly Jewish (mostly Orthodox) area.

insular and arrogant

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

Muslima,

Stay away from sales. You'd never make your quota.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just hink of our trip to Hawaii, sitting on a beach next to a muslim family. The husband and sons were enjoying the beach in their biard shorts. The wife and daughters were covered nearly head to toe in heavy black, long sleeves, heavy head scarf, sweltering in the July sun.

Sitting on a beach in the middle of paradise, those poor ladies looked sweaty and miserable. The guys looked like they were having a blast.

Hmmmm. The veiled Muslims I see at Ocean City go swimming. Now, is wouldn't want to do that fully veiled, but they seemed just fine. Maybe the women you saw don't know how to swim?

I used to think these pictures were a joke.

apparently not?

Women don't swim in their abayas, they swim in something called the burquini, made especially for swimming in a material that protects against sub, uv and doesn't expand in water

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Well, its quite possible the ISIS doesnt think you represent Islam and doesnt think that you speak for Muslims. Moderates must acknowledge the parts of the religion (and this is true of all religions) that are open to interpretation and extremism. Otherwise, the "perfection" of the religion becomes infallible and the extremists prevail.

Well they have been rejected by all reputable Muslim scholars and Theologians. Their actions are against Islam so ya they might think of me as a kuffar but it doesn't make them right. Btw, I don't like the term moderate Muslim, it somehow implies that Islam is only acceptable when it is diluted and that Orthodox Islam is violent or extreme. Muslims are just Muslims, some follow their religion, others don't. Same with all religions. There are practicing Christians and non practicing Christians. I wouldn't call them radical Christians or moderate Christians. The irony is Islam in itself is moderate so the term moderate Muslim is redundant.....

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Well, its quite possible the ISIS doesnt think you represent Islam and doesnt think that you speak for Muslims. Moderates must acknowledge the parts of the religion (and this is true of all religions) that are open to interpretation and extremism. Otherwise, the "perfection" of the religion becomes infallible and the extremists prevail.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Anonymous wrote:I am not anti-Islam per se, but do not agree with the ideologial views held by many radicalized populations of this religion who believe that those who do not share the same beliefs are the enemy, and that it is ok to resort to violence to prove that point.

I do not think that the terrorists are doing what they are doing because of Islam. There has been some real injustices done to Middle Eastern countries and their population. Using Islam is a political play and a way to rally people around them. That's all.

Anonymous wrote:Muslima:

I will speak here for Christianity:

Everything in the life of a Christian is for the sake of God and to get closer to Him.

Are you familiar with C S Lewis. You might like to read his book _Mere Christianity_.

Are you the person who started the thread about how often Christians pray? Actually we are enjoined to constantly pray (1 Thessalonians 5:17). I have been praying very frequently for you and for myself since late this morning when I posted the link to the story of the Samaritan woman. I think we both need the living water mentioned in that story.

Yes I'm the one who started that thread. No I'm not familiar with C S Lewis, I will look him up. Thank you for your prayers, may Allah bless you!

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

Muslima:

I will speak here for Christianity:

Everything in the life of a Christian is for the sake of God and to get closer to Him.

Are you familiar with C S Lewis. You might like to read his book _Mere Christianity_.

Are you the person who started the thread about how often Christians pray? Actually we are enjoined to constantly pray (1 Thessalonians 5:17). I have been praying very frequently for you and for myself since late this morning when I posted the link to the story of the Samaritan woman. I think we both need the living water mentioned in that story.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Some of the deadliest and most violent conflicts of our times have been the result of not religion, but secular based political ideologies. WW1, and WW2 were not based on religion, but competing political worldviews, with Nazism, Fascism, and Communism. After the end of the World War 2 the conflict was then fought between the two secular political ideologies of Communism, VS the Liberal Democratic-Capitalistic west, a conflict we all known as the Cold War which left millions of people dead and injured through proxy battles fought between the west and the Soviet Union.

Something that happened 75 years ago isn't a defense to the current behavior of the religious. A huge amount of violence in the world currently is being fueled by religious divisions. Furthermore, religion is a conservative political force which reinforces and promotes the conflicts between religious groups -- Exhibit A to this is the way conservative Christians and conservative Muslims are bound and determined to keep the US government and Muslim populations going at each other.

Religion is an inherently evil, destructive force in the world. The fact that there are OTHER destructive forces doesn't change that.

That wasn't a defense but barely an example to respond to the poster who speed the picture of a world without religion as peaceful and beautiful as if religion was the root of all evil. It’s not true that religion is the only, or unique cause for divisions and conflict between humans. There are many other ideologies and causes that have created division and conflict amongst humanity, so simply pointing a finger at religion doesn’t really count as a major argument, unless the other alternatives out there do the opposite, and the alternatives do not.

For example, political ideologies within a secular framework have been known to cause major divisions amongst the people, with left VS right, Democrat VS Republican, Liberal VS Conservative, Socialist VS Capitalist, Communist VS Capitalist, and the list goes on and on. Yet no atheist calls for the dismantling of politics within a secular framework, even though it’s been causing divisions amongst the people.


Yet with all these facts, anti-religion proponents for some strange reason try to make it seem that division and conflict is uniquely religious, when it’s obviously not the case. Or they try to argue that division-conflict caused by religion is worse than division-conflict caused by non-religious causes, such as secular ideologies, a highly convenient argument you would say.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.