A little off topic but for you high drive DWs with husbands who are "low drive" how often are they jerking off and or watching porn? If they are doing either and aren't willing to step up and help you get yours they need to back off or give up the extracurriculars. I just can't believe any male is going a week or more without ejaculating in some fashion.

I am mid 40s now and hd but I have had a couple of close calls w performance issues with the DW in the evening after jerking off in the am esp if we try to go more than once. Used to go 4 or 5 times a day no prob lol but now if I think the DW is going to be down I will hold off for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

If I was in your situation, with your mentality, I would do one of two things:

1. Get divorced.
2. Speak to your husband about pursuing an open marriage. Your needs are not being met. You deserve to have your needs met in a way that doesn't result in his needs not being met (where the need to not have sex as often as you want to have sex is a valid need).

If he will not agree to #2 or it's not something that interests you, move straight to #1. Seriously.

Nope. The marriage is worth keeping otherwise, and we are in the middle of raising three teenagers.

Either sexual fulfillment is something that is important enough to end your marriage over, or it's not.

Don't get me wrong. I think that people should work out their sexual issues and figure out a way to be compatible. It makes me sad when people are unwilling to do that. I worked mine out, and it didn't fix our marriage, which ended. I learned a lot in the process. But my overall point was that being married to someone doesn't mean they "owe" you sex. They still get to have autonomy over their own bodies. The notion that once you're married, sex is a given whenever someone wants it is why for a very long time, many states didn't consider it illegal for a man to rape his wife. Sexual relations are part of the marriage vows, so obviously, that means you can't say no.

The continued qualifying of what reasons for not wanting to have sex are acceptable and what reasons are invalid really just reinforces the idea that sex is an obligation owed by one partner to another, and that that need is more important than other needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

If I was in your situation, with your mentality, I would do one of two things:

1. Get divorced.
2. Speak to your husband about pursuing an open marriage. Your needs are not being met. You deserve to have your needs met in a way that doesn't result in his needs not being met (where the need to not have sex as often as you want to have sex is a valid need).

If he will not agree to #2 or it's not something that interests you, move straight to #1. Seriously.

Nope. The marriage is worth keeping otherwise, and we are in the middle of raising three teenagers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Hilarious, the OP is married to a guy who wants sex, she committed to him so she needs to get to f-cking right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the gender roles were reversed, there would be no question: he would be the villain for rejecting his wife 9/10 times. He would be called gay or presumed to be cheating. People would be telling her to get a divorce from this loser.

Women can be a bit hypocritical about this stuff.

That's because they feel entitled to have the man be the initiator.

High drive wife with lower drive husband here. I do wish that my husband initiated at least half the time, yes. I initiate about 80% of the time, and yeah, I keep track of how long it's been since we've had sex. Yeah, it does make H self conscious and feel cornered sometimes, but if I don't keep track, he'll say, "oh, it hasn't been that long," when it's been two weeks. He just doesn't desire sex like I do.

I'm in the opposite case. HD DH with LD DW. I'm curious as to your DH's reaction to the fact that you are suffering the lack of sex but he is not really suffering ?

Gets very defensive. Rationalizes. Occasionally deflects and says," If you were nicer/wore sexier clothes...."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

Exactly, If sex is important to a spouse, neither party has a right to say well funk that....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

If I was in your situation, with your mentality, I would do one of two things:

1. Get divorced.
2. Speak to your husband about pursuing an open marriage. Your needs are not being met. You deserve to have your needs met in a way that doesn't result in his needs not being met (where the need to not have sex as often as you want to have sex is a valid need).

If he will not agree to #2 or it's not something that interests you, move straight to #1. Seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the gender roles were reversed, there would be no question: he would be the villain for rejecting his wife 9/10 times. He would be called gay or presumed to be cheating. People would be telling her to get a divorce from this loser.

Women can be a bit hypocritical about this stuff.

That's because they feel entitled to have the man be the initiator.

High drive wife with lower drive husband here. I do wish that my husband initiated at least half the time, yes. I initiate about 80% of the time, and yeah, I keep track of how long it's been since we've had sex. Yeah, it does make H self conscious and feel cornered sometimes, but if I don't keep track, he'll say, "oh, it hasn't been that long," when it's been two weeks. He just doesn't desire sex like I do.

I'm in the opposite case. HD DH with LD DW. I'm curious as to your DH's reaction to the fact that you are suffering the lack of sex but he is not really suffering ?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Surely there are limits. If your spouse was throwing acid on you ever time you walked in the door, that exceeds the "for better or worse" pledge -- among other things, your spouse is breaking the pledge first by abusing you. The question becomes whether the denial of sex has reached such an extreme (based on extent, rationale, and effort or lack thereof by denying spouse) that it amounts to a breach of the pledge by the denying spouse.

One rhetorical device advocates for the low drive spouse like to employ in these discussions is a straw man argument where the high drive spouse is demanding "all the time" and "on demand." That's disingenuous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

I think her stated reasons were invalid. She may have had valid reasons (e.g. "her husband wasn't unattractive to her") but that's not what she was giving him. "I'm sweaty?" Take a shower - easy. But, of course, that wasn't the real reason.

My point was that it doesn't matter what her reasons are. She doesn't want to have sex with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

Okay then. My husband can deny me sex for whatever reason and also get into it halfheartedly. If done consistently, the laws of natural consequences take over, and I end up finding someone else who's equally hot for me and sex as I am for him and it.

So what you are saying is that if your husband does not have sex with you when and how you want him to, you will cheat on him? Either you are committed to the person you married FOR BETTER OR WORSE or you are not.

Anonymous wrote:"Because I see the IP logs from our home network, I know that probably once a month she watches porn before coming to bed and initiating sex (we probably have sex 3-4x per month -- up from about once a month during the infant/toddler years). I'm torn between being happy at the effort and being sad that it takes that for her to want me."

Oh, PP, I would definitely look at this as a positive that she's trying and wants to make you happy. I think I have a normal sex drive, and I really like having sex with my partner, but there are definitely some times during my monthly cycle that my drive is low and I need to work more to get in the mood. My partner has a higher drive, and sex is really important to him for connecting, so I make sure I make an effort, even during a week where I could take a pass.

You're right, of course. There's just an unrealistic part of me that wants to be the guy she desires fiercely. After 15 years of marriage, I suppose the novelty has kind of worn off. And, it's funny you should mention your monthly cycle. The porn seems to crop up around week 3 of her cycle.

"Because I see the IP logs from our home network, I know that probably once a month she watches porn before coming to bed and initiating sex (we probably have sex 3-4x per month -- up from about once a month during the infant/toddler years). I'm torn between being happy at the effort and being sad that it takes that for her to want me."

Oh, PP, I would definitely look at this as a positive that she's trying and wants to make you happy. I think I have a normal sex drive, and I really like having sex with my partner, but there are definitely some times during my monthly cycle that my drive is low and I need to work more to get in the mood. My partner has a higher drive, and sex is really important to him for connecting, so I make sure I make an effort, even during a week where I could take a pass.

Anonymous wrote:"Do you or do you not think sex is more important than TV the night before a 10 day business trip?"

It's certainly not good for a relationship (marriage or otherwise) for partners to be sexually on different pages. It's the kiss of death for some relationships.

HOWEVER.

Anyone has the right to not have sex if they don't want to. Their reasons are their own and it is really not okay to say, well, this reason is legitimate but that one isn't. I understand that sex is important, but all this talk of "denying" sex makes it sound like sex is something one partner gives to another, rather than something that two willing adults do TOGETHER.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The needs of both partners need to be considered. It sounds like this lady was not considering her husband's needs, but many of the posters on this thread are not considering her needs, or are saying that her reasons for not wanting to have sex are not valid. Marriage doesn't mean ownership over a person's body. Any person, male or female.

I think her stated reasons were invalid. She may have had valid reasons (e.g. "her husband wasn't unattractive to her") but that's not what she was giving him. "I'm sweaty?" Take a shower - easy. But, of course, that wasn't the real reason.