Thinking of you, OP. I hope you got a good lawyer who's advocating for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is going to get dirty but try to settle things without a lawyer if you can. Lawyers rack up the bills big time. Courts decide child support, you do not have to. You also do not need a lawyer for that. They simply calculate each others earnings and come up with a number. Why do you think you should get his retirement? He worked for it, it is his. Keep it simple, because in the long run, you could get burned.

In most states, it belongs to both of them, 50/50. Just like the debt, even though he ran it up.

OP, you need a lawyer to figure out property division. Sometimes the parent with primary custody gets to keep the house until the kids are a certain age in order to provide the kids with stability. You might also get temporary alimony until you find a full time job. Don't give up the house so easily.

She was working too!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes half the debt and half the assests....fair is fair. I am not looking for anything more, but it seems like I will need to fight to even get that. It is what it is though. I just need to let go of the idea that I have any ability to control how he behaves. It will be tough for awhile, but we will be okay.

PP at 15:46 here. OP, the reason that people are urging you to get a lawyer and stop agreeing to things informally is that the only elements of his behavior you CAN control are the things that get codified into a divorce decree. You CAN control how much alimony and child support he pays. You CAN control who is responsible for the debt. You CAN control when the children are with him vs. with you. I am not saying that you will get 100% of what you want in those examples, but by getting a lawyer and advocating for yourself, you can get yourself the best deal possible, have it bronzed and notarized and whatever else, and then if he fails to uphold his end of the deal, you have a means to enforce the deal.

Good luck.

+1 - very well put.

OP, don't assume you have you take half the debts he incurred in secret. Maybe you will; maybe you won't - I'm
No lawyer - but just because he says it's so doesn't make it so. In fact, if he's saying its so, it's probably just the opposite. Don't take anything he says at face value any more.

You sound like you're getting more clarity about who you're dealing with here. That's good , though I'm sure also shocking and very hard to process. I'm glad you have a great family to help you!

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes half the debt and half the assests....fair is fair. I am not looking for anything more, but it seems like I will need to fight to even get that. It is what it is though. I just need to let go of the idea that I have any ability to control how he behaves. It will be tough for awhile, but we will be okay.

PP at 15:46 here. OP, the reason that people are urging you to get a lawyer and stop agreeing to things informally is that the only elements of his behavior you CAN control are the things that get codified into a divorce decree. You CAN control how much alimony and child support he pays. You CAN control who is responsible for the debt. You CAN control when the children are with him vs. with you. I am not saying that you will get 100% of what you want in those examples, but by getting a lawyer and advocating for yourself, you can get yourself the best deal possible, have it bronzed and notarized and whatever else, and then if he fails to uphold his end of the deal, you have a means to enforce the deal.

Good luck.

Op you sound like a total pushover. Stick up for yourself!!

OP here. Yes half the debt and half the assests....fair is fair. I am not looking for anything more, but it seems like I will need to fight to even get that. It is what it is though. I just need to let go of the idea that I have any ability to control how he behaves. It will be tough for awhile, but we will be okay.

OP, 15:46 here. One thing I forgot re: costs.

Your ability to afford a lawyer is exactly the same as his ability to afford a lawyer. It is joint money. You are just as entitled to it as he is. Please do not let him fleece you out of joint money.

OP, I will share my experience. It's going to be different than yours because my ex-husband is not a dishonest weasel like yours, but I learned a lot of valuable things in the process.

1. Collaborative divorce is expensive. There are a number of attorneys in the DC area who are experienced in collaborative divorce, and they have relatively high rates. If he gets an expensive attorney with a lot of experience and you get someone cheaper who has less experience, there is always the possibility that his attorney will try to do to your attorney what he's been trying to do to you. I am confused about the process that is being described to you - is your husband suggesting a total of 2 attorneys (yours and his), 3 attorneys (yours, his, mediating collaborative attorney), or 5 attorneys (yours, his, mediating collaborative attorney, and two "regular divorce lawyers")? The way that my lawyer (who is a collaborative divorce expert) described the process, it would be two attorneys, who would help us come to an agreement over a longer term process.

2. Costs. My attorney was a referral from a friend. Because she was sensitive to my cost issues, she referred my case to her associate, whose rates were much lower. She was still involved, but I got the sense that she wrote off a lot of our communication (because I also work in law and saw the bills and knew when we corresponded and didn't always see it on the bill). I paid $3000. My ex, who had a similar attorney, paid $5000. His attorney did the actual filing and so his fees paid for that. We did not end up in court and didn't have a lot of conflict about our agreement - this is OBVIOUSLY not going to be the case for you.

3. Compromises. I would encourage you to speak with your attorney and think about what things are not negotiable for you. For me, my ex paying for the rest of daycare, any sort of aftercare expenses from school, plus extracurriculars if she wanted them, was important. Him continuing to carry her on his medical insurance AND agreeing to pay for the out of pocket stuff as well, was important. I would imagine that both of those things would be EXTRA important if your children have any kind of special needs or are particularly young. My DD was 2 when we separated and we live in DC, so she started public preschool a year later and his days of paying insane daycare tuition were numbered. She also wasn't going to the doctor all the time. I was willing to trade an agreement that he pay for all those things and buy me out of the house (not a straight 50/50 split - I think it'll end up being me getting about 30% of the value vs. his 70%) in exchange for straight up child support. The calculator would have had him paying me so much in child support that he would have been unable to keep the house and I wanted him to be able to keep the house. My lawyer didn't like these compromises, but with the monthly payments associated with the house and the insurance premiums and aftercare expenses, it works out to more or less what he'd be paying me in child support anyway.

4. Reality. You will learn very clearly who you married as a result of this process. That can be good or bad. Your husband has shown you his true colors when he tried to make you feel greedy for asking for something that is fair. Your husband incurred debt in both your names without telling you. He has been lying to you about money for a long time and is now trying to make YOU feel greedy. You are not married to a person with integrity. He will not behave with your collective best interests at heart. Your follow up posts show concern that he will not care appropriately for your children on his watch. For those reasons, I really, really don't think that collaborative divorce is a good option for you guys. It requires both parties acting in good faith, and given that past behavior is the most accurate predictor of future behavior, I just don't think that you can count on him to act in good faith.

Best of luck to you. It was not always easy, but we were both committed to behaving with integrity and acting in the best interest of our child. Every time we were frustrated by the process or felt attacked, we consciously chose to back off and take a breather from the situation. He spent a lot of time in church. I spent a lot of time in therapy. It was an exhausting and emotional process, but it truly has worked out for the best. I wish you and your husband the ability to similarly prioritize.

OP again. It is pretty clear that he has been trying to manipulate the situation. As much as I want peace, for my kids sake, you all have made some valid points. I really have taken them to heart. This obviously won't be easy, but I can't make him be reasonable. On the upside I am beyond humbled at how supportive my entire family is being. It looks like I will have some help when the gloves come off. Thanks to everyone for setting me straight! You all were right.

Hi OP - I think the thing that has everyone so worried for you is that is sounds like he's ALREADY using the kids as leverage against you. It's getting him what he wants ("collaborative" attorneys), so why would he stop using his best weapon when it's proving so effective? He'll use it after the divorce, too, no doubt, so you'll need iron-clad custody agreements.

He sounds like a shark. You need a shark of your own. He's already scared you by using your love for your children against you. He's already tried to manipulate you into moving our of your own house while becoming his full-time nanny and housekeeper pretty much for free. That is not the behavior of a good or honorable or reasonable man. I really think you need more protection against him. Please reconsider and hire your own independent lawyer, and DEFINITELY see this kind of lawyer *first* if you do choose to head down the path you seem to be on now. If you let him extort you now out of custody fears, rest assured he'll keep pulling that lever. That's how people like him work.

I wish you the best.