Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that a lot of threads in DCUM seem to be White parents "analyzing" or attemtping to analyze how other races parent. We have threads like this and threads about Asian "Tiger moms." What's this all about? I do not think that parents of any race parent "monolithically" and I think that you will find that good and bad parents come in all races. Why this push to make certain parenting methods the province of one race or another? What is the point?

What's more entertaining a calm, quiet discussion where parties concur with and concede to one another or a knock down drag out opinionated brawl of obtuse assumptions and assessments? Exactly...the latter. The threads that revolve around argument are the ones that receive all the attention as everyone wants to add their two cents and be a part of the melee. Now it may be possible to get some parents fussing back and forth about feeding a friend's child peanut butter without asking whether or not that child is allergic or not - but let's be honest the odds of such a fracas developing are slim to none. So...since that won't work and is unlikely to garner much attention what's another sure-fire way to rile people up and get a good argument going? Exactly...race.

I agree some OPs intend to rile people up and start fires, but not all. I think some really are asked under the cloak of anonymity because that is the only way OP would feel comfortable in asking.
But while DCUM is entertaining, I don't necessarily ALWAYS want to be entertained. And I don't necessarily like feeling that each thread is a Real Housewives episode of drama, rudeness, and cattiness. We should be able to have mature exchanges, disagree and have healthy debate without disrespect.

+1
And let's not forget the ever-important element of emotion when it comes to our discourses. Communication is not as simple as it seems. In addition to the fact that not everyone is adept at expressing themselves in writing and may not be as politically correct or considerate of others as some would like, you also have to factor into the equation the fact that not everyone is adept at interpreting information presented in writing and may be easily emotionally aggravated by interpretations of inconsideration and a lack of political correctness. Plain and simply put not every slight is intentional and quite a few slights are not even there - we're just hypersensitive and perceive slights where there are none. No doubt some people are gonna say some dumb shit and deliberately piss folks off. But, bear in mind, some people are gonna say some pretty perceptive shit that makes a lot of sense but still pisses folks off because of how it was worded or because of how it was interpreted. Gotta find a way to wade through all the nonsense.

I am the first PP. I hear you but there seems to be a MO to these threads that do not lend themselves to constructive dialogue. First the thread title - a pretty overreaching and general title that implies all memebers of a racial group. Then there is some variation of "I do not mean to be racist but......" There is some description of behavior (usually negative) and personal commentary on such behavior (usually that such behavior is negative). Then there ususally is a question "Why do [insert racial group here] do this?"

IMO, there was nothing hypersensitive or perceived about the OP's post. She sees parents who are less than ideal parents and happen to be AA. Somehow that becomes a referendum on Black moms. I live in a predominately White neighborhood and I see those parents letting their kids get away with murder. Never occurred to me to get on here and write a post about "White parents and ill mannered children." Why? Because I am smart and wordly enough to know that the behavior that I see is not indicative of all White parents and I know AA parents who parent the same way.

It is not unreasonable for someone to get emotional about a post when the intent of that post is to put them on the defensive and impute behavior to them that is not relevant.

PPPPREACHHH!

Some of these kids not getting disciplined are at risk for becoming the same teenagers that later call their mother a bitch, pushing parents against a wall, ignore requests, or show other forms of disrespect for authority. Not all. It is no more fair to say that every child who isn't spanked will become like this, than it is to suggest that children who are spanked are worse off for it. There are not enough studies done to answer this specific question.

The point is that only parents and children really know the best measure of discipline and type for their children, and some children DO need to be course corrected through physical punishment to learn submission and respect. If you have a child that does not, that is great. Parents should have this right to assess the best way to ensure that their children are submitting to their authority, love and guidance. To suggest physical punishment is not to exclude any other form of discipline. Also, physical punishment can be administered differently - how frequently it is administered, how strongly it is administered, and the method all make a difference.

Not 100% analogous, but there are other examples where physical consequences helps to develop a level of discipline. The military doesn't spank, but it uses physical training to discipline and develop these same characteristics of submission to authority, and respect. So for example, a parent could make a child do 5 push-ups for not listening. Some may consider that this is extreme. Others may find it effective for helping to correct a child's inappropriate behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that a lot of threads in DCUM seem to be White parents "analyzing" or attemtping to analyze how other races parent. We have threads like this and threads about Asian "Tiger moms." What's this all about? I do not think that parents of any race parent "monolithically" and I think that you will find that good and bad parents come in all races. Why this push to make certain parenting methods the province of one race or another? What is the point?

What's more entertaining a calm, quiet discussion where parties concur with and concede to one another or a knock down drag out opinionated brawl of obtuse assumptions and assessments? Exactly...the latter. The threads that revolve around argument are the ones that receive all the attention as everyone wants to add their two cents and be a part of the melee. Now it may be possible to get some parents fussing back and forth about feeding a friend's child peanut butter without asking whether or not that child is allergic or not - but let's be honest the odds of such a fracas developing are slim to none. So...since that won't work and is unlikely to garner much attention what's another sure-fire way to rile people up and get a good argument going? Exactly...race.

I agree some OPs intend to rile people up and start fires, but not all. I think some really are asked under the cloak of anonymity because that is the only way OP would feel comfortable in asking.
But while DCUM is entertaining, I don't necessarily ALWAYS want to be entertained. And I don't necessarily like feeling that each thread is a Real Housewives episode of drama, rudeness, and cattiness. We should be able to have mature exchanges, disagree and have healthy debate without disrespect.

+1
And let's not forget the ever-important element of emotion when it comes to our discourses. Communication is not as simple as it seems. In addition to the fact that not everyone is adept at expressing themselves in writing and may not be as politically correct or considerate of others as some would like, you also have to factor into the equation the fact that not everyone is adept at interpreting information presented in writing and may be easily emotionally aggravated by interpretations of inconsideration and a lack of political correctness. Plain and simply put not every slight is intentional and quite a few slights are not even there - we're just hypersensitive and perceive slights where there are none. No doubt some people are gonna say some dumb shit and deliberately piss folks off. But, bear in mind, some people are gonna say some pretty perceptive shit that makes a lot of sense but still pisses folks off because of how it was worded or because of how it was interpreted. Gotta find a way to wade through all the nonsense.

I am the first PP. I hear you but there seems to be a MO to these threads that do not lend themselves to constructive dialogue. First the thread title - a pretty overreaching and general title that implies all memebers of a racial group. Then there is some variation of "I do not mean to be racist but......" There is some description of behavior (usually negative) and personal commentary on such behavior (usually that such behavior is negative). Then there ususally is a question "Why do [insert racial group here] do this?"

IMO, there was nothing hypersensitive or perceived about the OP's post. She sees parents who are less than ideal parents and happen to be AA. Somehow that becomes a referendum on Black moms. I live in a predominately White neighborhood and I see those parents letting their kids get away with murder. Never occurred to me to get on here and write a post about "White parents and ill mannered children." Why? Because I am smart and wordly enough to know that the behavior that I see is not indicative of all White parents and I know AA parents who parent the same way.

It is not unreasonable for someone to get emotional about a post when the intent of that post is to put them on the defensive and impute behavior to them that is not relevant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White lady here. I grew up lower MC in a heavily Latino neighborhood. Everyone spanked and hit their kids. Fast forward to now- I am well off and guess what? Most my friends who are also well-off spank or hit their kids! They just don't admit to it as freely and won't do it in public. I believe the higher the SES, the more things are done in private. That's my hypotheses and I am sticking to it.

Clearly higher SES individuals spank less than lower status families. I know very few people that spank their kids, and the data bear this out:

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090924_spanking.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759998/

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf

Sorry but these are self-reported.

(FYI. I am an anti-spanking, as in it should be outlawed. But as I posted above the studies rely on self-reporting, which I think is unreliable.)

Why should it be outlawed? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but for an area that is supposed to be more worldly and sophisticated people here seem to think their way is the best and only way. There are billions of people around the world that spank their kids. How is your way better than another culture's way? Because studies have shown xyz? Those studies are skewed and don't apply to every culture.

I'm not saying that the case that OP saw is ok. I'm saying there are different ways to parent, and spanking judiciously when it's called for doesn't mean the child will be scarred for life.

This is what happens when you don't firmly discipline kids. Read the link about Sweden. This country is in danger of ending up like Sweden as far as child rearing goes. It's a slippery slope: don't spank your kids, don't yell at your kids, don't speak sternly to your kids, don't say "no" to your kids...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579354801246309702

Here's another way to frame it. It is a criminal offense to hit another person (battery). Should you be immune from prosecution because you are hitting a young person that you gave birth to (or adopted)? It's asurd that I can hit my kid and no one will intervene, but if my neighbor does, she can (rightfully) go to jail. When does my battery grace period end? When my kid is 18? If I "spank" my 19 year old, she can turn around and press charges. But if she's small, it's okay?

There are zero benefits to hitting children. Everyone who I know that hits has serious problems with self-control, or is just a bad person.

Good lord, if you cannot as a parent tell the difference between spanking an 8 yr old and an 18 yr old then maybe you shouldn't be a parent. You as a parent have the right to discipline a child as you see fit (and no, I'm not saying punch your kid); your neighbor doesn't have the right to discipline your child in that way. Common sense. What kind of logic are you using?

If you know every child in this world, I might listen to your assessment of "zero benefits of hitting children". Since you probably don't, this is just your opinion, not fact.

When a parent uses CIO method for sleep training, is it considered abuse b/c you are letting your baby cry and cry for 30min or maybe longer? Some people do consider that abusive; others do not. Some cultures see letting your child CIO as abusive. My mom who is from the "old country" thought that was cruel, but she had no problem smacking me across the face when I was older. I don't agree with either. Most baby sleep training experts would disagree with you if you do consider that abuse. There are some, including in this forum, that would disagree with the experts.

If everyone you know who spanks has self control issues or is a bad person, then you need to expand your circle of acquaintances.

Anonymous wrote:Secretly think people who hit kids are trash. Period.

Secretly think people who push their kids to go to Ivy League, or Red Shirt for sports (yes, I know there are legitimate reasons to do this), or are ok with their MS/HS kids having sex are trash. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess my concern is this. There is always a co-mingling of discipline with abuse. Why is hitting assumed to be associated with cursing and anger and a lack of control?

There is a difference.

Maybe because abusive behavior that is is in public and out of control are the only forms of "hitting" you are seeing - so some of you assume it is only done that way? Perhaps there is a misconception on the effectiveness on discipline because an effective positive example has not been seen. No well disciplined child hates or resents or pulls away from their parent for it.

For me, this is a consideration about spanking as a form of discipline -- NOT ABUSE. ABUSE IS WRONG. What OP described was abuse!

The question is - where does it become abuse?

As soon as you strike your child, it is abuse. It's not that complicated.

Actually it is more complicated that you are letting on. Some would say the abuse begins when you tell your child, "Sit your ass down or I am going to slap you in the mouth?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that a lot of threads in DCUM seem to be White parents "analyzing" or attemtping to analyze how other races parent. We have threads like this and threads about Asian "Tiger moms." What's this all about? I do not think that parents of any race parent "monolithically" and I think that you will find that good and bad parents come in all races. Why this push to make certain parenting methods the province of one race or another? What is the point?

What's more entertaining a calm, quiet discussion where parties concur with and concede to one another or a knock down drag out opinionated brawl of obtuse assumptions and assessments? Exactly...the latter. The threads that revolve around argument are the ones that receive all the attention as everyone wants to add their two cents and be a part of the melee. Now it may be possible to get some parents fussing back and forth about feeding a friend's child peanut butter without asking whether or not that child is allergic or not - but let's be honest the odds of such a fracas developing are slim to none. So...since that won't work and is unlikely to garner much attention what's another sure-fire way to rile people up and get a good argument going? Exactly...race.

I agree some OPs intend to rile people up and start fires, but not all. I think some really are asked under the cloak of anonymity because that is the only way OP would feel comfortable in asking.
But while DCUM is entertaining, I don't necessarily ALWAYS want to be entertained. And I don't necessarily like feeling that each thread is a Real Housewives episode of drama, rudeness, and cattiness. We should be able to have mature exchanges, disagree and have healthy debate without disrespect.

+1
And let's not forget the ever-important element of emotion when it comes to our discourses. Communication is not as simple as it seems. In addition to the fact that not everyone is adept at expressing themselves in writing and may not be as politically correct or considerate of others as some would like, you also have to factor into the equation the fact that not everyone is adept at interpreting information presented in writing and may be easily emotionally aggravated by interpretations of inconsideration and a lack of political correctness. Plain and simply put not every slight is intentional and quite a few slights are not even there - we're just hypersensitive and perceive slights where there are none. No doubt some people are gonna say some dumb shit and deliberately piss folks off. But, bear in mind, some people are gonna say some pretty perceptive shit that makes a lot of sense but still pisses folks off because of how it was worded or because of how it was interpreted. Gotta find a way to wade through all the nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a poor thing because poor parents are almost always overwhelmed with stress and stress over health, bills and shelter can cause you to do crazy thing. Poor people don't have the resources for therapy to deal with domestic abuse, drug violence etc.

As someone who grew up so poor we faced homelessness and the constant threat of CPS intervention I despise ignorant comments lile this. Pppr does not equal shitty parenting.

Get a clue. Many poor mothers know how to cope without being violent to their children. Many people are poor due to poor decisions and it often spills into all aspects of their lives.

I was with you until the bolded section. You dispute a generalization with ANOTHER generalization, try again!

I have made lots of poor decisions but was insulated from the effects because I didn't start off poor. It's not like everyone starts off on equal footing, and people who end up financially comfortable just made better decisions.

Anonymous wrote:So catholic schools that used corporal punishment are trash?

C'mon. We all know that they're sadistic.

Recovering Catholic here.

So catholic schools that used corporal punishment are trash?

Anonymous wrote:I suggest you read "The Corner" by Ed Burns, the same writer who did "The Wire" which white folks are so fond of. He talks a lot about this phenomenon, which is called "primping" in the black community.

All black communities or just the one he was writing about?

Secretly think people who hit kids are trash. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a poor thing because poor parents are almost always overwhelmed with stress and stress over health, bills and shelter can cause you to do crazy thing. Poor people don't have the resources for therapy to deal with domestic abuse, drug violence etc.

As someone who grew up so poor we faced homelessness and the constant threat of CPS intervention I despise ignorant comments lile this. Pppr does not equal shitty parenting.

Get a clue. Many poor mothers know how to cope without being violent to their children. Many people are poor due to poor decisions and it often spills into all aspects of their lives.

I was with you until the bolded section. You dispute a generalization with ANOTHER generalization, try again!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that a lot of threads in DCUM seem to be White parents "analyzing" or attemtping to analyze how other races parent. We have threads like this and threads about Asian "Tiger moms." What's this all about? I do not think that parents of any race parent "monolithically" and I think that you will find that good and bad parents come in all races. Why this push to make certain parenting methods the province of one race or another? What is the point?

What's more entertaining a calm, quiet discussion where parties concur with and concede to one another or a knock down drag out opinionated brawl of obtuse assumptions and assessments? Exactly...the latter. The threads that revolve around argument are the ones that receive all the attention as everyone wants to add their two cents and be a part of the melee. Now it may be possible to get some parents fussing back and forth about feeding a friend's child peanut butter without asking whether or not that child is allergic or not - but let's be honest the odds of such a fracas developing are slim to none. So...since that won't work and is unlikely to garner much attention what's another sure-fire way to rile people up and get a good argument going? Exactly...race.

I agree some OPs intend to rile people up and start fires, but not all. I think some really are asked under the cloak of anonymity because that is the only way OP would feel comfortable in asking.
But while DCUM is entertaining, I don't necessarily ALWAYS want to be entertained. And I don't necessarily like feeling that each thread is a Real Housewives episode of drama, rudeness, and cattiness. We should be able to have mature exchanges, disagree and have healthy debate without disrespect.

Anonymous wrote:In my neighborhood I see a lot of very little black kids get shoved, hit, and yelled at and yanked by their (I assume) moms. It's rough rough behavior where kids are getting hurt. Like one and two year old, and up from there. They are often very upset over what seems to be stuff kids do--like making noise on the bus. I often am so horrified I want to say something, but I have been biting my tongue. Is this an AA thing? I live in a low income neighborhood. I am not trying to get racist here but I don't feel comfortable asking anyone I know who might have insight about these situations.

are you really that dense? I have seen lots of white people shop at Trader Joe's) but I have enough DAMN SENSE to know that ALL white people don't shop there.
i really hate stupid.