Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The WOTP schools get less $$ per kid than title I schools. They do benefit from economies of scale because they are full, but they do not raise as much as the difference in funds. These funds do give the schools significant flexibility in that a principal can use her budget to hire more staff because the PTA can pick up administrative costs such as supplies.

We probably give about $2000/year to our WOTP elementary (flat out checks, bidding at the auction, money spent at other fundraisers), we are not rich but we used to be in private daycare and preschool so we built this in as an expense when we dropped that cost because we want to do what we can to help make our children's education as much as we can. We have two kids.

Of course. Or did you not understand that the raison d'être of Title I funding is to make a dimple of a difference in education circumstances between children from families with means, and children from families without? It doesn't, btw, but that's a topic for another thread.

Well, the point of the discussion (or what it has evolved into) is how it is unfair for parents to contribute or raise money for they child's school because it provides these schools with more money than others. My point is that the wotp schools get less money to start out with.

Regardless, taking PTA money from wotp schools will not solve the problems in schools with high poverty levels among its students. A better conversation would be what can we do for these schools to make sure they have the money, programs, and administrative resources necessary to provide such kids with the best education. Complaining that some children have good school options while others do not does not solve any problems for the children that do not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The WOTP schools get less $$ per kid than title I schools. They do benefit from economies of scale because they are full, but they do not raise as much as the difference in funds. These funds do give the schools significant flexibility in that a principal can use her budget to hire more staff because the PTA can pick up administrative costs such as supplies.

We probably give about $2000/year to our WOTP elementary (flat out checks, bidding at the auction, money spent at other fundraisers), we are not rich but we used to be in private daycare and preschool so we built this in as an expense when we dropped that cost because we want to do what we can to help make our children's education as much as we can. We have two kids.

Of course. Or did you not understand that the raison d'être of Title I funding is to make a dimple of a difference in education circumstances between children from families with means, and children from families without? It doesn't, btw, but that's a topic for another thread.

sounds like you did not read the post you are responding to very carefully. the poster was simply responding to others that said that WOTP schools have more funds and get more money. apparently it is clear to you, but not to other posters, that WOTP schools get less money and not more

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where people say Payne gets millions in title 1 funds--its budget shows around $211k: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY14%20documents/Updated%20School%20Allocations-FY14/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY14.pdf

Also, it has a large homeless population, so the challenges its students face are vastly more complicated than those of Janney's population.

I am the poster who did the Murch/Payne comparison. I never said that Payne gets millions in title 1 funds. I simply took the total budget of the schools for 2015 and divided by the projected number of students (one poster posted the link to the DCPS 2015 budgets for all schools). it comes out that Murch gets about $9,000 per student while Payne gets $14,000 per student. $5000 more per student is not really negligible, way more any PTA could raise. if the schools had the same number of students, Payne would get overn $3Million more than Murch. these are the numbers given by DCPS (clearly Payne gets more money for other sources in addition to title 1). again, this is not to say that Murch should get more, it is simply in response to posters saying that JKLM schools have more money than schools in poor areas because the parents raise funds. it appears instead that poor schools gets more money (at least Payne gets more than Murch) clearly the money raised by the Murch PTA is only a fraction of the difference in funding with Payne. nothing wrong with Payne getting more money per pupil since its student population needs specific support, but let's say that it does get more money and not less

Where is your source? Please include links and as much detail as possible.

sorry, as I said, I did not do any sophisticated evaluation. I just looked at the 2015 budget (another poster posted the link earlier this afternoon, this is the link http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Fina...+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets ). I just looked at the total 2015 budget for a JKLM school (Murch) and one title 1 school (Payne), and divided by the number of projected students. I kept reading posts saying that WOTP schools get more money from DCPS, or get substantial more funds from their PTA, and other posters saying that schools in poor area get more, but nothing specific, and I wanted to see by myself. based on this raw calculations, Murch gets about $9000 per students while Payne gets about $14,000. I do not have any other links or details. if you have more, post them because I am interested in learning more

That link doesn't work.

sorry, I don't know why it does not work, it was workign yesterday, another poster posted it and I just cut and paste from that post. it was a page with all the 2015 budgets (PDF documents) of all DC public schools from the DCPS website.

I just looked at DCPS web site and found these links to the Murch budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-MURCH-Allocation-FY15.pdf and the Payne budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY15.pdf

if these links do not work (they are working for me now), just go to the DCPS web site and type Murch 2015 budget or Payne 2015 budget and you will find them. these are the documents showing that Payne in 2015 will get about $14,000 per child while Murch will get about $9000 (so at least for these two schools, the education divide does not depend on the PTA money, as some posters are suggesting)

Thanks. If you delved deeper into these documents it is pretty clear where the funding difference comes from and it's not just that the school is title 1. Payne has MANY more kids in special education. The allocation for Payne is more than $1.1 million for special ed and at Murch it's about $400k. They also get funding for an after school program which Murch does not. You're not comparing like with like. Payne's students have many more needs.

thanks. I did not delve deep at all, as I said. this thread was about how much various schools' PTA raise. after a few answers responding to the title, including some incorrect posts (I heard from a friend....) that seemed to suggest that PTA at JKLM schools are run by professional fundsaisers and raise much more money than they actually do, some posters expressed their outrage pointing that these schools are doing well because they have so much more money that schools in poor areas, see, 8:47 from yesterday and 14:54 from yesterday, who expressly said poor schools get less money than school in rich areas when you count the fundraising. looking at the numbers given by DCPS about Murch adn Payne, it is not trues that Payne gets less money overall with respect to Murch, even counting the money the Murch PTA raises. Payne would get over $3 Million more (while the Murch PTA raise about $300K). I was simply responsing to the people who said that schools in poor area get less. I understand that Murch and Payne students have very different needs, and I think schools like Payne should even get more, or at the very least there should be an audit on how the money is spent and if additional services are needed, they should be provided. elementary school is a crucial time for education, kids who graduate without being able to read and write will never finish high school and will never get out of poverty, eventually generating more children like them, in a never ending cycle.

Anonymous wrote:The WOTP schools get less $$ per kid than title I schools. They do benefit from economies of scale because they are full, but they do not raise as much as the difference in funds. These funds do give the schools significant flexibility in that a principal can use her budget to hire more staff because the PTA can pick up administrative costs such as supplies.

We probably give about $2000/year to our WOTP elementary (flat out checks, bidding at the auction, money spent at other fundraisers), we are not rich but we used to be in private daycare and preschool so we built this in as an expense when we dropped that cost because we want to do what we can to help make our children's education as much as we can. We have two kids.

Of course. Or did you not understand that the raison d'être of Title I funding is to make a dimple of a difference in education circumstances between children from families with means, and children from families without? It doesn't, btw, but that's a topic for another thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where people say Payne gets millions in title 1 funds--its budget shows around $211k: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY14%20documents/Updated%20School%20Allocations-FY14/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY14.pdf

Also, it has a large homeless population, so the challenges its students face are vastly more complicated than those of Janney's population.

I am the poster who did the Murch/Payne comparison. I never said that Payne gets millions in title 1 funds. I simply took the total budget of the schools for 2015 and divided by the projected number of students (one poster posted the link to the DCPS 2015 budgets for all schools). it comes out that Murch gets about $9,000 per student while Payne gets $14,000 per student. $5000 more per student is not really negligible, way more any PTA could raise. if the schools had the same number of students, Payne would get overn $3Million more than Murch. these are the numbers given by DCPS (clearly Payne gets more money for other sources in addition to title 1). again, this is not to say that Murch should get more, it is simply in response to posters saying that JKLM schools have more money than schools in poor areas because the parents raise funds. it appears instead that poor schools gets more money (at least Payne gets more than Murch) clearly the money raised by the Murch PTA is only a fraction of the difference in funding with Payne. nothing wrong with Payne getting more money per pupil since its student population needs specific support, but let's say that it does get more money and not less

Where is your source? Please include links and as much detail as possible.

sorry, as I said, I did not do any sophisticated evaluation. I just looked at the 2015 budget (another poster posted the link earlier this afternoon, this is the link http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Fina...+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets ). I just looked at the total 2015 budget for a JKLM school (Murch) and one title 1 school (Payne), and divided by the number of projected students. I kept reading posts saying that WOTP schools get more money from DCPS, or get substantial more funds from their PTA, and other posters saying that schools in poor area get more, but nothing specific, and I wanted to see by myself. based on this raw calculations, Murch gets about $9000 per students while Payne gets about $14,000. I do not have any other links or details. if you have more, post them because I am interested in learning more

That link doesn't work.

sorry, I don't know why it does not work, it was workign yesterday, another poster posted it and I just cut and paste from that post. it was a page with all the 2015 budgets (PDF documents) of all DC public schools from the DCPS website.

I just looked at DCPS web site and found these links to the Murch budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-MURCH-Allocation-FY15.pdf and the Payne budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY15.pdf

if these links do not work (they are working for me now), just go to the DCPS web site and type Murch 2015 budget or Payne 2015 budget and you will find them. these are the documents showing that Payne in 2015 will get about $14,000 per child while Murch will get about $9000 (so at least for these two schools, the education divide does not depend on the PTA money, as some posters are suggesting)

Thanks. If you delved deeper into these documents it is pretty clear where the funding difference comes from and it's not just that the school is title 1. Payne has MANY more kids in special education. The allocation for Payne is more than $1.1 million for special ed and at Murch it's about $400k. They also get funding for an after school program which Murch does not. You're not comparing like with like. Payne's students have many more needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We raise about 50K a year with a budget close to 40K and have a carry over for the last few years of at least 20k. We fund buses for field trips, enrichment clubs, snacks on testing days, technology, Thanksgiving baskets, whatever the need is that particular year. Last year we had some work done on our school sign and bought the mats for the front lobby. We do a nice size fall festival and silent auction and that's how we raise at least 25 k of the money (we auction things like movie day with the principal, pizza or some type of acitivity with each teacher, front row seats to 5th grade graduation, etc. and these raise alot of money. And then we do some type of catalog sale. We don't have rich parents just regular parents who try to support the fundraisers.

Do you mind saying which school?

Mann. Obviously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where people say Payne gets millions in title 1 funds--its budget shows around $211k: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY14%20documents/Updated%20School%20Allocations-FY14/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY14.pdf

Also, it has a large homeless population, so the challenges its students face are vastly more complicated than those of Janney's population.

I am the poster who did the Murch/Payne comparison. I never said that Payne gets millions in title 1 funds. I simply took the total budget of the schools for 2015 and divided by the projected number of students (one poster posted the link to the DCPS 2015 budgets for all schools). it comes out that Murch gets about $9,000 per student while Payne gets $14,000 per student. $5000 more per student is not really negligible, way more any PTA could raise. if the schools had the same number of students, Payne would get overn $3Million more than Murch. these are the numbers given by DCPS (clearly Payne gets more money for other sources in addition to title 1). again, this is not to say that Murch should get more, it is simply in response to posters saying that JKLM schools have more money than schools in poor areas because the parents raise funds. it appears instead that poor schools gets more money (at least Payne gets more than Murch) clearly the money raised by the Murch PTA is only a fraction of the difference in funding with Payne. nothing wrong with Payne getting more money per pupil since its student population needs specific support, but let's say that it does get more money and not less

Where is your source? Please include links and as much detail as possible.

sorry, as I said, I did not do any sophisticated evaluation. I just looked at the 2015 budget (another poster posted the link earlier this afternoon, this is the link http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Fina...+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets ). I just looked at the total 2015 budget for a JKLM school (Murch) and one title 1 school (Payne), and divided by the number of projected students. I kept reading posts saying that WOTP schools get more money from DCPS, or get substantial more funds from their PTA, and other posters saying that schools in poor area get more, but nothing specific, and I wanted to see by myself. based on this raw calculations, Murch gets about $9000 per students while Payne gets about $14,000. I do not have any other links or details. if you have more, post them because I am interested in learning more

That link doesn't work.

sorry, I don't know why it does not work, it was workign yesterday, another poster posted it and I just cut and paste from that post. it was a page with all the 2015 budgets (PDF documents) of all DC public schools from the DCPS website.

I just looked at DCPS web site and found these links to the Murch budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-MURCH-Allocation-FY15.pdf and the Payne budget http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY15%20documents/Final%20School%20Allocations-FY15/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY15.pdf

if these links do not work (they are working for me now), just go to the DCPS web site and type Murch 2015 budget or Payne 2015 budget and you will find them. these are the documents showing that Payne in 2015 will get about $14,000 per child while Murch will get about $9000 (so at least for these two schools, the education divide does not depend on the PTA money, as some posters are suggesting)

http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Finance/FY15+Fiscal+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where people say Payne gets millions in title 1 funds--its budget shows around $211k: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Files/downloads/ABOUT%20DCPS/Budget%20-%20Finance/FY14%20documents/Updated%20School%20Allocations-FY14/DCPS-PAYNE-Allocation-FY14.pdf

Also, it has a large homeless population, so the challenges its students face are vastly more complicated than those of Janney's population.

I am the poster who did the Murch/Payne comparison. I never said that Payne gets millions in title 1 funds. I simply took the total budget of the schools for 2015 and divided by the projected number of students (one poster posted the link to the DCPS 2015 budgets for all schools). it comes out that Murch gets about $9,000 per student while Payne gets $14,000 per student. $5000 more per student is not really negligible, way more any PTA could raise. if the schools had the same number of students, Payne would get overn $3Million more than Murch. these are the numbers given by DCPS (clearly Payne gets more money for other sources in addition to title 1). again, this is not to say that Murch should get more, it is simply in response to posters saying that JKLM schools have more money than schools in poor areas because the parents raise funds. it appears instead that poor schools gets more money (at least Payne gets more than Murch) clearly the money raised by the Murch PTA is only a fraction of the difference in funding with Payne. nothing wrong with Payne getting more money per pupil since its student population needs specific support, but let's say that it does get more money and not less

Where is your source? Please include links and as much detail as possible.

sorry, as I said, I did not do any sophisticated evaluation. I just looked at the 2015 budget (another poster posted the link earlier this afternoon, this is the link http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Fina...+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets ). I just looked at the total 2015 budget for a JKLM school (Murch) and one title 1 school (Payne), and divided by the number of projected students. I kept reading posts saying that WOTP schools get more money from DCPS, or get substantial more funds from their PTA, and other posters saying that schools in poor area get more, but nothing specific, and I wanted to see by myself. based on this raw calculations, Murch gets about $9000 per students while Payne gets about $14,000. I do not have any other links or details. if you have more, post them because I am interested in learning more

That link doesn't work.

Another Janney mom here.
We have never been pressured into paying the PTA money, never gotten phone calls or emails. We have had access to everything that Janney has to offer.

Anonymous wrote:Future Janney parent here. We've been warned by two separate families that the "donation" is no-joke pressure tactics, and that your kids access to stuff is definitely tied to whether you donated or not. One parent told me another parent (soliciting their donation) called the switchboard at his office - not knowing the parents direct line - and got patched through.

I like where we live, but if these stories are true, I'm not looking forward to this...

This is an outright lie.
We've been at the school for multiple years and have never paid the PTA money and no one has ever solicited for it.
Last year it wasn't even mentioned in the back-to-school package whereas in previous years it was just included as a sheet of paper. That's it.
No further mention.
Plus your whole, "your kids access to stuff is definitely tied to whether you donated or not"---what does this even mean?

I just want everyone to know that this poster is a lying troll trying to stir up trouble between parents.

Anonymous wrote:But at least they know what an argument ad hominem is...

right, they are so selfish. on the other hand, parents zoned for the worst HS in DC who support a system where their kids can lottery into Wilson are acting with universal justice in mind, not the best interest of their kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Future Janney parent here. We've been warned by two separate families that the "donation" is no-joke pressure tactics, and that your kids access to stuff is definitely tied to whether you donated or not. One parent told me another parent (soliciting their donation) called the switchboard at his office - not knowing the parents direct line - and got patched through.

I like where we live, but if these stories are true, I'm not looking forward to this...

I call bs. That parent almost certainly listed his general work number as a contact number. It's no sign of harassment. I'm more surprised at your thinking anyone has a switchboard. This isn't Mad Men.

I don't mean a woman at a physical switchboard obviously. I literally mean the main office line. Does your office not have a phone?

There is simply no high pressure to contribute at Janney, this is some kind of urban myth. The PTA sends reminders and encourages, but the idea of phone calls is preposterous.

Maybe the calls were about the field trip fees? Field trips do cost money and families can pay a single $75 fee at the beginning of the year, pay as you go for individual fees, or apply for a scholarship. If you have not paid they will send reminders so your child can go on the field trips.

I also do not think anyone objects to schools with the challenges of high poverty students receiving more money than low poverty schools. The debate here is about a misunderstanding of how much more money high poverty schools already get than low poverty schools. There is a reflexive rejection of the idea that parents should be able to contribute to their children's schools because it is not fair that some families cannot afford to contribute. This is a circular argument that cannot be won because we having no idea what those arguing actually want that they do not have. Is it more money for high poverty schools and less for low poverty schools? If so, that is the current state of affairs even with PTA fundraising. Is it better a schools for high poverty kids? If so, that is which everyone wants, but taking PTA money away from wotp schools is not going to get you there.

Anonymous wrote:Why do you doubt it?

because with an enrollment of 627 kids, that would mean that the PTA spends (and raise) about $630K, which sounds like a lot, especially since there are families who do not give any money. but I don't know how much the PTA at Janney raises, so I can't say.