Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 10:34     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


You can definitely decide *together* that one spouse SAH while the other is the breadwinner. That's what happened in my marriage. But, I agree, that it needs to be a joint decision. I can't imagine making a huge decision like that w/o the input and support of my spouse.


I view a partnership as fluid. There were no "rules" for us as far a earning potential goes.

-I had my first child and thought I wanted to go back to work. Baby came and I could not part with my baby. Though it was financially tough, my DH fully supported my desire to be at home. WE scaled back and made it work.
-I returned to work after 2 years because I felt OK leaving my child and was feeling more confident as a mother. My income quickly ramped up.
-After me working for a few years, my DHs job got miserable. THe poor man was so stressed out. He hated his job, his boss, he got backstabbed and went into a very dark place. It tore me apart to see my DH so miserable, but his sense of duty kept him going. Once day I could no longer see my DH suffer. I said FUCK THEM. Go in tomorrow and quit. Tell them you are the fuck out of there. He was shocked. He never considered quitting, he was "the man". However, my man's job was killing him. The next Monday he rolled in and put in his 2 weeks. It was such a relief. He took a month off from work, banged out a bunch of projects and really recharged himself. I was so proud and happy to give my DH the opportunity to walk away from his job and to carry the family for awhile while he recovered and found happiness again. He was back to work at a new 8 weeks after quitting.
-Now, I'm considering taking a "break" and starting my own business. For that my DH will have to carry the load while I get on my feet. He fully supports me.

So again, I do not see these roles are ridgid. They are fluid and we adapt as life happens.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 10:15     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


+1,000,000


But it is not a level playing field. There are a gazillion men in the past few decades who married believing that they and their spouses would both continue working, only to have their well-educated, successful wives decide that they wanted to become SAHMs. How many of those men tell their wives they need to keep working and suggest to anyone that their wives are no longer "winner" material. If anything, it's the opposite; it's still a sign of their success as breadwinners that they can support a non-working spouse.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 09:54     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Don't you just love how some people find it so difficult to accept others who fail to meet their expectations? THAT IS SO AWESOMELY EGOCENTRIC!!!
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 09:51     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


+1,000,000
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 09:46     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If he was turning out to be less successful professionally than you thought he would be (like not being partner material), would you consider divorce? What if you were getting the impression that he was turning out to be more "beta" than "alpha" mail in professional or social situations?


My husband as been under or unemployed for the 7+ years I've known him. I knew he was "behind" professionally and financially when we met, but I thought he had potential. I'm not so sure anymore. The more time that goes by, the more resentful I feel towards him and myself -- that I made such a poor choice in a partner.

DH is a terrific father to our toddler, he does more than his share of household upkeep, and he's one of the best persons I know in terms of character, generosity, integrity, etc. but all of this is overshadowed when I feel chronically stressed from the pressure of being the primary breadwinner. For this reason, I am no longer attracted to DH. I don't want or need a man to take care of me; I want a partnership where we are realizing our financial goals and dreams (college fund for DC, golden retirement, house, etc) together.

I feel lonely, depressed, and bleak about my future. I have no one to talk to about this, so I post anonymously on DCUM.


I feel exactly like what you wrote about 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm so thankful to have a kind, generous, loving husband and father of my children. But that 70% feels pretty dark sometimes.


Add me to this group, and I'm not getting divorced. I married a man I thought was my equal and that we both wanted to work hard, pay off our student loans, and make a quiet life that minimized the rat race. Fast forward to him being unemployed for more than half of our marriage and me working 70+ hour weeks to pay for everything and having maybe 30 minutes a day to sit down. I pay for everything, and not because we agreed on it, but because he is always about to start looking for a job in "a couple of months." He is a great guy - good, kind, patient - and a solid, present father. He is an awful provider and an awful partner, though. Whatever OP's intentions, know that it isn't always black and white - winners and losers.


PP here (the first one). As selfish as this may sound...it's nice to here that I'm not alone!


Here? or hear? PP, you are not an intellect. One way or another, you'll wind up alone.


PP, here. Why the hostility?
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 09:24     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:This happened to me, the morphing of a 'winner' into a beta that had setback after setback. Over the course of 15 years or so.

I was prepared to stick it out, come whatever may, because I actually believed in the vows I took. Call me old-fashioned. Also, a change in health status seemed to play a part, and I felt bad for him. Still, it was really hard to watch a C-level guy with so. much. potential. slip into a professional near-failure. But I kept silent and was supportive, helpful, and tried to be kind.

Here's the weird part: he turned on ME. Everything that happened to him, it turns out, was my fault. I wasn't an enthusiastic enough sex partner. I didn't spend enough time on my appearance. I didn't contribute enough to the HHI. I was "lazy." I was a hick. I was pedantic. I was negative. I was fat. I was entitled. My family was stupid and fat and entitled.

So, we went our separate ways. My compassion and support is completely gone, as you might suspect.


+1
This happened to me too. He walked out. We are now trying to work it out - mostly for the kids' sake, but I don't have high hopes. Mostly I feel like an idiot.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:55     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


+1 it's like the guy that wants a SAHW marrying a woman that plans to keep working when they have kids. Or the person that wants kids marrying a person that does not want any kids. It's such a fundamental difference in what people value ...not right or wrong, you just need to be with the person that agrees with you on those big things.

I made more than my husband when we got married but I would not have been comfortable being the sole supporter. I change jobs a decent amount and I value knowing I can leave a job. I won't just quit without lining something else up but the freedom in knowing I can take a small paycut for a better opportunity or I don't have to stay in in unhappy job situation is liberating. When my son had issues in school and I had to run down options of homeschool, cut back hours, or pony up money for private school, again, we only had those options because we both work. As wonderful as DH is, I don't see him throwing himself into homeschooling our children so it isn't like that would have been an option if he was at home.

My parents are divorced and while they had multiple issues including MIL overinvolvment, one of the things that got me was that they did not agree on the big things. My mom would have preferred to stay at home or atleast be in a position to pick us up from school and to hear her tell it she would have been happy not spending as much on a house (maybe being in a town house or less expensive housing) for that financial freedom to do those things or at a minimum be in a better situation when my dad lost his job. To hear my dad tell it, my mom had such wonderful potential and he could ever understand why she threw away such great opportunities. She had more opportunities ,college scholarships, internship opportunites etc, but instead stayed in low paying jobs and changed jobs frequently. The truth is probably somewhere between. I just get back to give your kids the most stability, you need to be a team. In order to be a team you need to agree on some basic things or find your way to a compromise.


Before we got married, I really wasn't clear on whether or not I would be willing to quit my job to SAH with our future kids. It wasn't until our first son was born and I had been home with him for a few weeks on maternity leave that I knew that I wanted to SAH. Dh already wanted me to do that...so it worked out well for us.

Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:48     Subject: Re:If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:How about if the DH has been the sole breadwinner 25 years and is burned out and the DW would like to return to the work force? Assume they have more than enough saved (over $5 million) to retire in a low cost area but not necessarily enough for here. WWYD?


They should do whatever makes them both happy (and they can afford).
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:33     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


+1 it's like the guy that wants a SAHW marrying a woman that plans to keep working when they have kids. Or the person that wants kids marrying a person that does not want any kids. It's such a fundamental difference in what people value ...not right or wrong, you just need to be with the person that agrees with you on those big things.

I made more than my husband when we got married but I would not have been comfortable being the sole supporter. I change jobs a decent amount and I value knowing I can leave a job. I won't just quit without lining something else up but the freedom in knowing I can take a small paycut for a better opportunity or I don't have to stay in in unhappy job situation is liberating. When my son had issues in school and I had to run down options of homeschool, cut back hours, or pony up money for private school, again, we only had those options because we both work. As wonderful as DH is, I don't see him throwing himself into homeschooling our children so it isn't like that would have been an option if he was at home.

My parents are divorced and while they had multiple issues including MIL overinvolvment, one of the things that got me was that they did not agree on the big things. My mom would have preferred to stay at home or atleast be in a position to pick us up from school and to hear her tell it she would have been happy not spending as much on a house (maybe being in a town house or less expensive housing) for that financial freedom to do those things or at a minimum be in a better situation when my dad lost his job. To hear my dad tell it, my mom had such wonderful potential and he could ever understand why she threw away such great opportunities. She had more opportunities ,college scholarships, internship opportunites etc, but instead stayed in low paying jobs and changed jobs frequently. The truth is probably somewhere between. I just get back to give your kids the most stability, you need to be a team. In order to be a team you need to agree on some basic things or find your way to a compromise.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:32     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


For better or worse: that's what you promised.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:30     Subject: Re:If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
How about if the DH has been the sole breadwinner 25 years and is burned out and the DW would like to return to the work force? Assume they have more than enough saved (over $5 million) to retire in a low cost area but not necessarily enough for here. WWYD?
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:24     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.


You can definitely decide *together* that one spouse SAH while the other is the breadwinner. That's what happened in my marriage. But, I agree, that it needs to be a joint decision. I can't imagine making a huge decision like that w/o the input and support of my spouse.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 08:10     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 07:59     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If he was turning out to be less successful professionally than you thought he would be (like not being partner material), would you consider divorce? What if you were getting the impression that he was turning out to be more "beta" than "alpha" mail in professional or social situations?


My husband as been under or unemployed for the 7+ years I've known him. I knew he was "behind" professionally and financially when we met, but I thought he had potential. I'm not so sure anymore. The more time that goes by, the more resentful I feel towards him and myself -- that I made such a poor choice in a partner.

DH is a terrific father to our toddler, he does more than his share of household upkeep, and he's one of the best persons I know in terms of character, generosity, integrity, etc. but all of this is overshadowed when I feel chronically stressed from the pressure of being the primary breadwinner. For this reason, I am no longer attracted to DH. I don't want or need a man to take care of me; I want a partnership where we are realizing our financial goals and dreams (college fund for DC, golden retirement, house, etc) together.

I feel lonely, depressed, and bleak about my future. I have no one to talk to about this, so I post anonymously on DCUM.


I feel exactly like what you wrote about 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm so thankful to have a kind, generous, loving husband and father of my children. But that 70% feels pretty dark sometimes.


Add me to this group, and I'm not getting divorced. I married a man I thought was my equal and that we both wanted to work hard, pay off our student loans, and make a quiet life that minimized the rat race. Fast forward to him being unemployed for more than half of our marriage and me working 70+ hour weeks to pay for everything and having maybe 30 minutes a day to sit down. I pay for everything, and not because we agreed on it, but because he is always about to start looking for a job in "a couple of months." He is a great guy - good, kind, patient - and a solid, present father. He is an awful provider and an awful partner, though. Whatever OP's intentions, know that it isn't always black and white - winners and losers.


PP here (the first one). As selfish as this may sound...it's nice to here that I'm not alone!


I'm in the same exact boat- I really could have written your post op word for word. Sometimes I feel so alone because none of my friends are in this situation so they don't understand how I feel or how stressed out I am. Sorry but no woman I know goes into a marriage expecting to be the breadwinner. I don't expect my husband to be the only breadwinner- I expect him to share the role with me.


Newsflash, PP: you are wrong, especially around here. I can think of three women (close friends, in fact) who are sole breadwinners and a dozen others who make more than their husbands. These women went into their relationships eyes open because they were looking for love, not financial support.

Times have changed.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2014 07:55     Subject: If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If he was turning out to be less successful professionally than you thought he would be (like not being partner material), would you consider divorce? What if you were getting the impression that he was turning out to be more "beta" than "alpha" mail in professional or social situations?


My husband as been under or unemployed for the 7+ years I've known him. I knew he was "behind" professionally and financially when we met, but I thought he had potential. I'm not so sure anymore. The more time that goes by, the more resentful I feel towards him and myself -- that I made such a poor choice in a partner.

DH is a terrific father to our toddler, he does more than his share of household upkeep, and he's one of the best persons I know in terms of character, generosity, integrity, etc. but all of this is overshadowed when I feel chronically stressed from the pressure of being the primary breadwinner. For this reason, I am no longer attracted to DH. I don't want or need a man to take care of me; I want a partnership where we are realizing our financial goals and dreams (college fund for DC, golden retirement, house, etc) together.

I feel lonely, depressed, and bleak about my future. I have no one to talk to about this, so I post anonymously on DCUM.


I feel exactly like what you wrote about 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm so thankful to have a kind, generous, loving husband and father of my children. But that 70% feels pretty dark sometimes.


Add me to this group, and I'm not getting divorced. I married a man I thought was my equal and that we both wanted to work hard, pay off our student loans, and make a quiet life that minimized the rat race. Fast forward to him being unemployed for more than half of our marriage and me working 70+ hour weeks to pay for everything and having maybe 30 minutes a day to sit down. I pay for everything, and not because we agreed on it, but because he is always about to start looking for a job in "a couple of months." He is a great guy - good, kind, patient - and a solid, present father. He is an awful provider and an awful partner, though. Whatever OP's intentions, know that it isn't always black and white - winners and losers.


PP here (the first one). As selfish as this may sound...it's nice to here that I'm not alone!


Here? or hear? PP, you are not an intellect. One way or another, you'll wind up alone.