John Grisham went to Mississippi State then to Ole Miss for law school. He was doing just fine for himself career wise before he even became John Grisham the writer.

...what matters...

Anonymous wrote:PP, and so you would base an important life decision based on two people you know? It is true that some Ole Miss grads will do better than some Harvard grads but, on average, it is not even close and your argument is pretty silly.

It's ironic that you are criticizing the pp for using two examples from her life, yet your counter argument is based on what?? Do you have statistics that compare, say, average salaries for Harvard grads vs Ole Miss grads during the past five years? No? Well then, you are doing what you accuse the pp of doing, using your life experience to form your opinions, which is fine, but not always accurate.

I do know that half of CEOs of major corporations (and their compensation is excellent) went to what you likely would consider no-name schools, small LACs, state schools, etc.

Personally, I know many Ivy League grads (and I am one) who make very little money, including a friend who graduated from Harvard Law School. And I know lots of people who have "made it" financially, who went to no-name schools. Often, it's the latter group who want their kids to go to Ivies. I suspect having heir kid go to a big name school adds to heir feelings of success, at least that's my personal observation.

My kids will go to schools that offer a combination of a course of study that interests them and "value" in terms of what we can afford. I think that means state schools, but that's OK by me. They will do well based mostly on how hard they work, which is whatatters in the long run.

Different PP (the "who keeps bringing up Harvard?" PP). The Harvard grads I know are go-getters but generally in mid-level jobs, with the exception of one real standout in the Administration. Which proves... nothing! We are all talking about very small sample sizes.

But a correction seems necessary. By "do better" 21:20 is probably referring to salaries. Studies have shown that Harvard grads to better salary-wise, right out of college, than grads of much less competitive schools. I don't think that's even up for debate. Employers see the word "Harvard" and assume rightly or wrongly that anybody who got in must be smart and hard-working. That's called "credentialling" because the Harvard degree is a sort of credential that gets a kid in the door for one of the 10 interviews. (OK, the kids start with a leg up, but what they do afterwards depends on them.)

Agree with the point made earlier that something like 0.03% of students go to Harvard, which leaves plenty of great jobs for hard-working kids from even the less select colleges.

Anonymous wrote:PP, and so you would base an important life decision based on two people you know? It is true that some Ole Miss grads will do better than some Harvard grads but, on average, it is not even close and your argument is pretty silly.

No ... It is not silly.

There is no correlation between wealth and school if you work hard. Really all you friends that went to Harvard make more money? Not!

I am not the pp, but I know quite a few people that went to Harvard because I grew up in New England. They are nice, smart people. But in the real world they are blending in with everyone else. Because most people in this country did not go to Harvard or another top school and there are many, many people all over the country with decent careers.

PP, and so you would base an important life decision based on two people you know? It is true that some Ole Miss grads will do better than some Harvard grads but, on average, it is not even close and your argument is pretty silly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I moved to DC in my 20's I met people from all over the country and all over the world. They had graduated from big state schools, tiny colleges most people would not have heard of, elite private schools, international universities, just from all over. It didn't matter. They had moved to DC and were working on the Hill, for nonprofits, for think tanks, were in law school or med school. There did not seem to be any person walking around with the holy grail of the right undergraduate degree. Perhaps it was different if you were in NYC trying to get a job on Wall Street. It is a big country and people are crisscrossing it all the time. I really think a good student can go anywhere but will be weighed down by debt. $240,000 for undergrad is just too much.

+1000

+10,000. It doesn't matter nearly as much as people think it doees. I worked for a Harvard grad who was barely making $60,000 a year and drowning in student loan debt. One of my closest friends is an Ole Miss Law grad making close to $200,000 a year in Tennessee. You just never know.

Anonymous wrote:When I moved to DC in my 20's I met people from all over the country and all over the world. They had graduated from big state schools, tiny colleges most people would not have heard of, elite private schools, international universities, just from all over. It didn't matter. They had moved to DC and were working on the Hill, for nonprofits, for think tanks, were in law school or med school. There did not seem to be any person walking around with the holy grail of the right undergraduate degree. Perhaps it was different if you were in NYC trying to get a job on Wall Street. It is a big country and people are crisscrossing it all the time. I really think a good student can go anywhere but will be weighed down by debt. $240,000 for undergrad is just too much.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is a good post. And it hints at a related issue that is coming up in this discussion: that people who are looking for cheaper alternatives to elite colleges should look at public schools. Well, yes....but often that makes sense only as long as the public schools in question are in your state of residence. For a Virginia or DC or MD resident, the cost of Berkeley or Michigan will equal that of an elite private university. You would never choose one of those schools over an elite private because of cost. Perhaps for other reasons, but not to save money.

Yes, fall and winter terms at Michigan cost about $21,000 each if you're out of state: http://www.ro.umich.edu/tuition/tuition-fees.php. So $42,000 annually for tuition, and that's before you add in room and board. The total is going to be right up there with the elite private universities.

FWIW, I think Michigan is an excellent school and I'd be happy for DS to attend. But from a financial POV, if you're out of state, it's not exactly a bargain compared to UMD or UVA from in-state.

this is a very fair statement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the drama about colleges? You might think going to school "in Boston" or Princeton will guarantee success in life and graduating from the University of Alaska (assuming they have one) will guarantee a life of long winters and despair.

Let your kids go to college. Live, breath, learn, laugh, experience, and occupy at least one administration building while they are still undergrads.

How is that worth 200+k? If this the goal they should backpacking around the world, not spending boatloads of money in order to pretend to be advancing careers.

I think the PP's point was that it doesn't have to cost 200k+ and that for all of the talk about the "right" place to send your kid, nothing is guaranteed from that degree. Let's be honest - what happens after graduation is sort of a crap shoot anyway.

I agree that most of the kids career will be outside of control; however to advocate spending boatloads of money with no other expectation than providing the child with some nebulous experience is just ridiculous. I think American parents in general tend to think too much out what college and too little about what major should their children pursue.

Anonymous wrote:
This is a good post. And it hints at a related issue that is coming up in this discussion: that people who are looking for cheaper alternatives to elite colleges should look at public schools. Well, yes....but often that makes sense only as long as the public schools in question are in your state of residence. For a Virginia or DC or MD resident, the cost of Berkeley or Michigan will equal that of an elite private university. You would never choose one of those schools over an elite private because of cost. Perhaps for other reasons, but not to save money.

Yes, fall and winter terms at Michigan cost about $21,000 each if you're out of state: http://www.ro.umich.edu/tuition/tuition-fees.php. So $42,000 annually for tuition, and that's before you add in room and board. The total is going to be right up there with the elite private universities.

FWIW, I think Michigan is an excellent school and I'd be happy for DS to attend. But from a financial POV, if you're out of state, it's not exactly a bargain compared to UMD or UVA from in-state.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the drama about colleges? You might think going to school "in Boston" or Princeton will guarantee success in life and graduating from the University of Alaska (assuming they have one) will guarantee a life of long winters and despair.

Let your kids go to college. Live, breath, learn, laugh, experience, and occupy at least one administration building while they are still undergrads.

How is that worth 200+k? If this the goal they should backpacking around the world, not spending boatloads of money in order to pretend to be advancing careers.

I think the PP's point was that it doesn't have to cost 200k+ and that for all of the talk about the "right" place to send your kid, nothing is guaranteed from that degree. Let's be honest - what happens after graduation is sort of a crap shoot anyway.

Sure, everything is a crapshoot. But as a parent, I'd like to boost the odds in my kids' favor. Totally agree that sometimes I don't know which way to even attempt to stack the deck. Really need a crystal ball here.

College is so much more than a sweatshirt and a bumper sticker. It's an individual's first great adult adventure! Theodore Roosevelt received a great education and made many lifelong friends at Harvard, but he didn't become a man until he went to Wyoming.

When I moved to DC in my 20's I met people from all over the country and all over the world. They had graduated from big state schools, tiny colleges most people would not have heard of, elite private schools, international universities, just from all over. It didn't matter. They had moved to DC and were working on the Hill, for nonprofits, for think tanks, were in law school or med school. There did not seem to be any person walking around with the holy grail of the right undergraduate degree. Perhaps it was different if you were in NYC trying to get a job on Wall Street. It is a big country and people are crisscrossing it all the time. I really think a good student can go anywhere but will be weighed down by debt. $240,000 for undergrad is just too much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the drama about colleges? You might think going to school "in Boston" or Princeton will guarantee success in life and graduating from the University of Alaska (assuming they have one) will guarantee a life of long winters and despair.

Let your kids go to college. Live, breath, learn, laugh, experience, and occupy at least one administration building while they are still undergrads.

How is that worth 200+k? If this the goal they should backpacking around the world, not spending boatloads of money in order to pretend to be advancing careers.

I think the PP's point was that it doesn't have to cost 200k+ and that for all of the talk about the "right" place to send your kid, nothing is guaranteed from that degree. Let's be honest - what happens after graduation is sort of a crap shoot anyway.

Sure, everything is a crapshoot. But as a parent, I'd like to boost the odds in my kids' favor. Totally agree that sometimes I don't know which way to even attempt to stack the deck. Really need a crystal ball here.