Anonymous wrote:No because the CDC and large health organizations recognize that most people are morons, first and foremost. Then they also know that people will take more liberal actions based on their recs. The my say zero drinking and some people will still drink. They say a few drinks are ok and some will use it as justification to get smashed. Population health looks at people like a massive group, not as individuals, and certainly not as intelligent adults who can make their own personal decisions. Do you rely on large professional bodies to make all decisions for your life?

Quote your source. Otherwise, this is just something you and the "I love my wine more than my child" camp wants to believe.

No because the CDC and large health organizations recognize that most people are morons, first and foremost. Then they also know that people will take more liberal actions based on their recs. The my say zero drinking and some people will still drink. They say a few drinks are ok and some will use it as justification to get smashed. Population health looks at people like a massive group, not as individuals, and certainly not as intelligent adults who can make their own personal decisions. Do you rely on large professional bodies to make all decisions for your life?

Anonymous wrote:
I think the only way is to look directly at the studies and judge for yourself.

The earliest studies were done on women who were alcoholics, who had >5 drinks per day. Based on that information, alcohol was deemed harmful and "no safe levels" were known.

There was a study on women in Britain last year that reported that women who drank lightly (<= 1-2 drinks / day) during pregnancy had kids who did better on cognitive tests than those who did not drink at all.

But the problem with all of these studies is that it's unethical to advise women to drink and obviously no way to do a controlled study.

You might scan google scholar to look for a broader array of studies.

The reality is that people are so emotional about these issues (and all issues surrounding pregnancy) that it is very hard, outside of direct academic studies, and even those can be dogmatic, to find objective information.

No. Do not do this. Just because you have a masters degree in comparative literature does not mean you have the medical expertise to "judge for yourself." The CDC issues guidelines about no alcohol during pregnancy because it cares about the health of children, not because it's a big bad meanie organization that wants you to miss happy hour and the financial independence you fought so hard to earn with said masters degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my god, people. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy is a completely different level of risk to a developing fetus than refined sugar, french fries or not exercising. Alcohol is a neurotoxin to a developing fetus.

Yes, in large amounts, it is. But you know what? In large amounts, a LOT of things are terrible for the human body, including oxygen and water.

Add sunlight and certain vitamins and minerals, as well

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You say you don't care, PP. But would you look twice if you saw a pregnant lady drinking wine in a bar or restaurant (or at the pool, like I did a few weeks ago)?

No...because I don't care. Seriously, I don't care.

Me too. Believe it or not, not everybody is a deep down judge shrew.

I definitely think sugar (in excess) is waayyy less healthy than alcohol (in moderation). So yes, a half-glass of wine wins for me!

It's our processed foods, refined starches, high-sugar-fructose-corn-syrup lifestyle that's ruining the health of our country and potentially changing our genetic makeup for generations. I'd way rather you give my kids (or my pregnant self) a sip of beer than an Oreo.

Anonymous wrote:Oh my god, people. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy is a completely different level of risk to a developing fetus than refined sugar, french fries or not exercising. Alcohol is a neurotoxin to a developing fetus.

Yes, in large amounts, it is. But you know what? In large amounts, a LOT of things are terrible for the human body, including oxygen and water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope, that's not it, PP. It has more to do with what I hope is a small minority of women struggling to justify their drinking during pregnancy who then turn around and pontificate on the importance of breast feeding (ya know, since it's better for the baby), and intervention-free childbirth (ya know, since it's better for the baby). Or the organic vegan yoga mom who has a baby plan and a glass of wine each night. It's the irony that makes us wonder about these folks and their choices. That's all.

I think, the issue of drinking during pregnancy aside, alcohol companies have successfully (far more than tobacco companies ever could) promoted this idea that drinking is an acceptable, even healthy, vice.

It amazes me how many people are opposed to processed foods, think sugar is evil, but think it's fine, even healthy/good, to drink wine every night. There's a serious disconnect.

I get the point that you're trying to make, but it's not just alcohol companies. Doctors say this too. Are you suggesting that those doctors are incorrect?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I get the feeling that those who are so adamant about other people abstaining 100% (why not just worry about yourself?) are in some way almost angry that the "bad" mothers who had occasional beer/wine ended up with healthy children? It really seems that way, like they feel that its not fair that they do the "right" thing and have healthy kids but also those who do the "wrong" thing have healthy kids..............it almost reads like they wish bad things would happen to babies just so they could be "right".

Which is disgusting.

No whats disgusting is your thought process and your post above. You are the terrible person for even thinking such absurd things about people.

PP is a terrible person for thinking that there is the possibility that there are truly spiteful, miserable people out there? Or on DCUM?! I don't think so. Thankfully most of humanity is not like that. I choose not to think so. But, there are bad apples and I can see how some of the posters come off with that spiteful tone.

Anonymous wrote:You say you don't care, PP. But would you look twice if you saw a pregnant lady drinking wine in a bar or restaurant (or at the pool, like I did a few weeks ago)?

Nope. Wouldn't bat an eyelash.

Falling down drunk, yeah, I'd probably notice. Doing tequila shots, sure. But having a glass of wine?

Oh, and there *are* many studies that show no ill effects of consuming up to a drink/week in pregnancy (i.e., substantially more than anyone on this thread is talking about). It's just that the public health message has to default to "no safe amount" so as not to send an ambiguous message to people who can't control their drinking.

Anonymous wrote:Nope, that's not it, PP. It has more to do with what I hope is a small minority of women struggling to justify their drinking during pregnancy who then turn around and pontificate on the importance of breast feeding (ya know, since it's better for the baby), and intervention-free childbirth (ya know, since it's better for the baby). Or the organic vegan yoga mom who has a baby plan and a glass of wine each night. It's the irony that makes us wonder about these folks and their choices. That's all.

I think, the issue of drinking during pregnancy aside, alcohol companies have successfully (far more than tobacco companies ever could) promoted this idea that drinking is an acceptable, even healthy, vice.

It amazes me how many people are opposed to processed foods, think sugar is evil, but think it's fine, even healthy/good, to drink wine every night. There's a serious disconnect.

Doesn't wine sold in America have preservatives/chemicals used in bottling (to ensure cleanliness) that wine sold in Europe, specifically France, not have.

Anonymous wrote:You say you don't care, PP. But would you look twice if you saw a pregnant lady drinking wine in a bar or restaurant (or at the pool, like I did a few weeks ago)?

No...because I don't care. Seriously, I don't care.

Anonymous wrote:You say you don't care, PP. But would you look twice if you saw a pregnant lady drinking wine in a bar or restaurant (or at the pool, like I did a few weeks ago)?

Not the PP you are quoting, I don't think, but no, I would not look twice. At least not unless she was visibly drunk or it was clearly her third or fourth drink. Her choice. Nor do I look twice at the pregnant women I see drinking coffee (or what looks like coffee - it's hard to tell sometimes). Now if I saw a pregnant woman smoking or doing drugs, yes, I would be taken aback. But it would still be her call to make.

You know the pregnant women I stare at? The ones doing serious sports, like long runs or weight lifting. I am so impressed by these women, I can't help but stare. I am happy when I manage to haul my butt to the pool once a week to do laps -- and that doesn't even happen as often as it should. I feel like other than being too tired to do more than walk I am having a reasonably normal pregnancy, but I just cannot fathom how these women have the energy to do serious workouts in addition to putting in their all at work and whatever else they do. Kudos to them. They are the ones I notice, not some woman who may be enjoying a glass of wine.

You say you don't care, PP. But would you look twice if you saw a pregnant lady drinking wine in a bar or restaurant (or at the pool, like I did a few weeks ago)?