Anonymous
07/02/2013 10:07
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.
strictly anecdotal.
Wow. You must really be hard at being so oblivious and ignorant to reality. I'm impressed.
so when you have no data to back up your opinions, you claim you are stating the obvious, and you attack those that disagree. does this strategy work for you in general?
What kind of data do you want? People have offered several different articles citing job statistics, college requirements, and career forecasting. I disagree that everything presented here about the importance of mathematics has been anecdotal. Do you have any data that supports the earning power and career futures for students who took no mathematics beyond algebra 1?
Anonymous
07/02/2013 09:23
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Let's just put it this way: If DCPS were to stop it's math curriculum at Algebra, they'd basically be driving the final nail in their coffin. Even the handful of successful schools in DC would rapidly fail because parents would realize all the more what an irrelevant dead end DCPS schools are to them and how much they will fail to meet their needs. More and more parents would pull their kids out of DCPS schools and instead send them to charters, privates or move out and go to suburban schools.
Educated parents know better. Educated parents know that higher math is needed in the professional world, that it's needed for graduate school admissions exams, and so on.
DCPS schools would become increasingly segregated, ultimately becoming 99% low-SES and AA, and all who attend DCPS schools would be condemned to a lousy and limited future that will come with low income, low quality of life, and plenty of heartbreak.
Educated parents know better. Educated parents know that higher math is needed in the professional world, that it's needed for graduate school admissions exams, and so on.
DCPS schools would become increasingly segregated, ultimately becoming 99% low-SES and AA, and all who attend DCPS schools would be condemned to a lousy and limited future that will come with low income, low quality of life, and plenty of heartbreak.
Anonymous
07/02/2013 06:38
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a writer and use algebra all the time. It's a life skill, basic math. Past that, no, I wouldn't say most people "need" statistics or calculus (though they can be handy), but algebra? Basic, basic stuff.
+1. Even if you will never use algebra in a career, it is useful in life.
I would argue statistics and basic financial calculations are truly life skills. Yes algebra is helpful for figuring out things like how much per can is soda if 5 12-packs are $10 at Giant. However I am constantly reading articles in NYT, Wash Post, Atlantic that have poorly stated or explained statistics. If the majority of adults in our society understood mean vs. median and had some basic financial literacy, we'd all be in a much better place.
Anonymous
07/02/2013 06:28
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.
strictly anecdotal.
Wow. You must really be hard at being so oblivious and ignorant to reality. I'm impressed.
so when you have no data to back up your opinions, you claim you are stating the obvious, and you attack those that disagree. does this strategy work for you in general?
Anonymous
07/02/2013 01:42
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
The bar is calculus. First question asked of DC when applying to GMU, "have you taken calculus?".
The employment market is changing. The future is in engineering, computers, robotics, technology and all things STEM. In order to succeed in those fields you have to need to know how to code computers. Universities want those kids who have already got a lot of math under their belt because they are just going to keep piling it on. That's what you have to do if you want to work in these fields. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_theory
The employment market is changing. The future is in engineering, computers, robotics, technology and all things STEM. In order to succeed in those fields you have to need to know how to code computers. Universities want those kids who have already got a lot of math under their belt because they are just going to keep piling it on. That's what you have to do if you want to work in these fields. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_theory
Anonymous
07/01/2013 23:11
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.
strictly anecdotal.
Wow. You must really be hard at being so oblivious and ignorant to reality. I'm impressed.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 21:52
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous
07/01/2013 21:47
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.[/quote]
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.[/quote]
strictly anecdotal.[/quote]
Not that poster, but I'll bite. It may be "strictly anecdotal" but regardless countless studies show that students who take the mathematics courses to graduate from a good school with a bachelors degree (and at AU most fields required Statistics for example) make thousands -- sometimes millions -- more during their lifetimes than high school graduates. Do they "use" Algebra 1 or Algebra 2? Antitrust lawyers, to use an earlier example, use the quadratic equation to calculate the market share change of a merger between two companies. Anyone who ever renovated a house had to use both algebra and geometry to get the job done. Are they happier? According to this week's Time magazine cover --yes, that's primitive print -- the US is losing ground even on happiness to other countries. Is higher mathematics the key to greater happiness? Maybe not, but the higher happiness scoring countries also tend to top the US in education, too. Just a thought.[/quote]
And another thought -- forgive me, I'm adding to my previous thought: IMHO, America seems to be getting stupider, poorer and unhappier. Comparatively, anyway. Wouldn't more education raise the wealth of better educated US citizens? Why should the US allow a brain drain and just accept stupefaction? How would that make Americans happier or more prosperous? Wouldn't it just worsen the problem of growing poverty in this country? Instead, theoretically, a rising tide would lift all boats, right?
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.[/quote]
strictly anecdotal.[/quote]
Not that poster, but I'll bite. It may be "strictly anecdotal" but regardless countless studies show that students who take the mathematics courses to graduate from a good school with a bachelors degree (and at AU most fields required Statistics for example) make thousands -- sometimes millions -- more during their lifetimes than high school graduates. Do they "use" Algebra 1 or Algebra 2? Antitrust lawyers, to use an earlier example, use the quadratic equation to calculate the market share change of a merger between two companies. Anyone who ever renovated a house had to use both algebra and geometry to get the job done. Are they happier? According to this week's Time magazine cover --yes, that's primitive print -- the US is losing ground even on happiness to other countries. Is higher mathematics the key to greater happiness? Maybe not, but the higher happiness scoring countries also tend to top the US in education, too. Just a thought.[/quote]
And another thought -- forgive me, I'm adding to my previous thought: IMHO, America seems to be getting stupider, poorer and unhappier. Comparatively, anyway. Wouldn't more education raise the wealth of better educated US citizens? Why should the US allow a brain drain and just accept stupefaction? How would that make Americans happier or more prosperous? Wouldn't it just worsen the problem of growing poverty in this country? Instead, theoretically, a rising tide would lift all boats, right?
Anonymous
07/01/2013 20:57
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.[/quote]
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.[/quote]
strictly anecdotal.[/quote]
Not that poster, but I'll bite. It may be "strictly anecdotal" but regardless countless studies show that students who take the mathematics courses to graduate from a good school with a bachelors degree (and at AU most fields required Statistics for example) make thousands -- sometimes millions -- more during their lifetimes than high school graduates. Do they "use" Algebra 1 or Algebra 2? Antitrust lawyers, to use an earlier example, use the quadratic equation to calculate the market share change of a merger between two companies. Anyone who ever renovated a house had to use both algebra and geometry to get the job done. Are they happier? According to this week's Time magazine cover --yes, that's primitive print -- the US is losing ground even on happiness to other countries. Is higher mathematics the key to greater happiness? Maybe not, but the higher happiness scoring countries also tend to top the US in education, too. Just a thought.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.[/quote]
strictly anecdotal.[/quote]
Not that poster, but I'll bite. It may be "strictly anecdotal" but regardless countless studies show that students who take the mathematics courses to graduate from a good school with a bachelors degree (and at AU most fields required Statistics for example) make thousands -- sometimes millions -- more during their lifetimes than high school graduates. Do they "use" Algebra 1 or Algebra 2? Antitrust lawyers, to use an earlier example, use the quadratic equation to calculate the market share change of a merger between two companies. Anyone who ever renovated a house had to use both algebra and geometry to get the job done. Are they happier? According to this week's Time magazine cover --yes, that's primitive print -- the US is losing ground even on happiness to other countries. Is higher mathematics the key to greater happiness? Maybe not, but the higher happiness scoring countries also tend to top the US in education, too. Just a thought.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 20:09
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.
strictly anecdotal.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 20:02
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.
Oh, so now the bar's Calculus? A few posts ago you said it was Algebra I. But regardless, that's just it - I've known plenty of people who didn't take higher math, and the vast majority of them are trapped in dead-end grunt work jobs on the low end of HHI as opposed to those who took higher math who virtually all ended up far more successful in life, landing high-paying jobs and endless opportunities.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 18:41
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Ah, the star-bellied sneeches
Anonymous
07/01/2013 17:44
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think we just have to accept that these anti-Algebra posters here live a very sheltered life and maybe haven't ever had to work a real job in the professional world.
Or, God help us if they are actually educators or public officials who have influence on education policy, because if that's the case how in the hell did they get there if they are so incompetent?
ITA. Idiotic. Since literacy and "every day" math is all taught in elementary school are these people proposing a 5/6th grade education is sufficient?
I don't know anyone who did not learn Algebra or Calculus for that matter but I went to college and everyone I know are educated professionals with graduate degrees.
How nice for you. But I have an undergraduate and two graduate degrees, one from an Ivy. Never took any math beyond trig, in fact I dropped trig, in high school. The only math course I took in college was statistics. I have worked in "real" jobs all my life, but I would be interested in knowing what jobs are not "real"?
BTW, did you take any English or writing courses? Perhaps not. "Everyone I know are"?
Oh and I type on my phone and don't edit. Use to work as an editor at a large publishing company before law school - drove the copy editors crazy. So sue me....
Anonymous
07/01/2013 17:38
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think we just have to accept that these anti-Algebra posters here live a very sheltered life and maybe haven't ever had to work a real job in the professional world.
Or, God help us if they are actually educators or public officials who have influence on education policy, because if that's the case how in the hell did they get there if they are so incompetent?
ITA. Idiotic. Since literacy and "every day" math is all taught in elementary school are these people proposing a 5/6th grade education is sufficient?
I don't know anyone who did not learn Algebra or Calculus for that matter but I went to college and everyone I know are educated professionals with graduate degrees.
How nice for you. But I have an undergraduate and two graduate degrees, one from an Ivy. Never took any math beyond trig, in fact I dropped trig, in high school. The only math course I took in college was statistics. I have worked in "real" jobs all my life, but I would be interested in knowing what jobs are not "real"?
BTW, did you take any English or writing courses? Perhaps not. "Everyone I know are"?
I'm a lawyer so I write for a living but I tested out of freshman English with AP and Calculus too. Attended an Ivy undergrad (and law school) and so everyone I know took Calculus in high school. Granted this was awhile ago but I doubt many or any students who apply to the Ivies not take Calculus in high school and they certainly all had algebra. Yeah, even the art history majors.
Anonymous
07/01/2013 17:34
Subject: Is algebra necessary for ALL?
Perhaps you are the one with the sheltered life. Get out more, meet some people who didn't take calculus, ask them whether or not they have a "real" job.