It is not as hard for everyone as people describe, it depends on your situation. When your first born is in school and you are a SAHM with a newborn at home is not going to be the same as having 3 under 2 at home. If you have one teenager and a newborn you are dealing with your typical teenager issues (life sucks, hate you all, etc...) And no sleep but no bickering between the kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They fight with each other
They fight for your attention
They fight over who gets in or out of the car first
One or the other is always taking off when you're trying to shop for groceries or socks or whatever
They won't both eat the same food on the same day
Etc etc etc

And it's not just the toddler years! My kids are 5 and 8 and still do this!

To add another factor: my firstborn was, is and will always be a more demanding, difficult child than #2. I thought having kids 3 years apart would be easy but it was still really really difficult in the beginning for all the reasons already stated but also with a demanding, high strung child. My point is that a child's personality can also add to stress. And you may have an easy one now but you never know what you could get with child #2.

I wonder what the best spacing is - for reducing friction such as this - I had mine close together (22 months) but I was amazed when I was telling another mom that my boys were acting up and she said her two children drove her crazy with the bickering too. I was amazed because she had a 9 year old boy and 17 year old girl!!!!!!!!! So maybe there is no magic spacing. My boys are getting along well for the most part, say 70% of the time!

2+ kids is difficult because you have 2+ irrational needy little beings who both need you and need things in completely and totally different ways at the same time.

Its doable and can be enjoyable, but it also can be stressful and hectic. Its more difficult when they are young (infant/toddler aged), IMO.

10:00 that was so helpful, thanks.

I think this all boils down to your experience with your first. My first child didn't sleep or eat easily and it was rough. While I was the in the midst of sleep deprevation a friend told me she was planning her second close to her first to get the "baby stage out of the way" and this resonated with me (who knows, could have been the sleep deprevation!). In any case, we tried for our second and wound up with twins (21 mos older than the first). However, knowing how tough my older one was,I made sure to line up professional help (family meant well, but not really helpful). And going from 1 to 3 really wasn't that difficult. Yes - busy. Yes - there are days like I am screaming all day long, but the older one is now 6 and the twins are now 4 and beginning when the younger two were around 3 (with the exception of a 6 mos potty training period - potty training twins is NOT fun) life is pretty manageable again. For us, since they are all close together (and all boys) they play well together letting us sleep in a bit on weekends, into the same things and on the same schedule.

Now of course if your first was an "easy" baby and then you have a second who is higher needs right when your first is entering toddlerhood (when even the easiest of babies need attention as they start walking, getting into things they should not) I can totally see how this is a huge shock! (like being dragged over shards of glass as the PP put it ).

In terms of having a second 4 or so years apart from the first, now that I am out of the baby/toddler fog, I can totally see this being doable/enjoyable since the older one is more independent plus likely at preschool part of the day. What I think might be hard in beginning with this age separate is getting use the the infant stage again, but now that my kids are older I have the perspective that everything is a phase and that will pass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?

OP here. This totally mesmerized me. Please say more if you feel like it. How old are your kids?

Um, I think she was being facetious.

OP again. Hmm, guess that means I should feel stupid. But from what some people say, this didn't sound like a stretch.

OP, you are focusing on the negative. Some people said it was hard, other people said it wasn't hard. I think this poster was just trying to point out that people tend to be over-dramatic in either direction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?

OP here. This totally mesmerized me. Please say more if you feel like it. How old are your kids?

Um, I think she was being facetious.

OP again. Hmm, guess that means I should feel stupid. But from what some people say, this didn't sound like a stretch.

Well, for us it was tough with 1 and tougher to the square having 2 because now you have the same trouble as before with a toddler around. That's when my grandma (who was had twins and singletons) says that having twins is a way easier than having 2 kids less than 2 years apart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?

OP here. This totally mesmerized me. Please say more if you feel like it. How old are your kids?

Um, I think she was being facetious.

OP again. Hmm, guess that means I should feel stupid. But from what some people say, this didn't sound like a stretch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?

OP here. This totally mesmerized me. Please say more if you feel like it. How old are your kids?

Um, I think she was being facetious.

Anonymous wrote:People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?

OP here. This totally mesmerized me. Please say more if you feel like it. How old are your kids?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.

This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house.
..
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with memmy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.

YOu're so freaking funny.

At home bed time means DC will stay in bed but will sing for hours before falling asleep.
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy but scream your lungs out while staying with mommy.
Don't touch that means don't touch that but asking a million times why and when THAT can be touched.

Be glad you have a complacent, passive children. You'll struggle the day you have one that will question you or a kid that just doesn't listen.

I don't have passive kids. I wouldn't tolerate that kind of disrespect or disobedience and my kids know it. You are a permissive parent who is okay with your kids singing for hours in bed, screaming for mom at the top of their lungs or touching things they have been asked not to. Kids can be taught not to do those things. If you don't teach your kids not to, of course they will do whatever the hell they feel like.

I'm extremely curious... How do you get a 2.5yo to stop singing? You just yell at them?
How do you get your child to stop screaming or even not start screaming? Do you spank them?
How do you get your child to stop asking why X. Y or Z are dangerous, hot, spiky, etc? You duct tape their mouth?

I'm honestly curious. This kind of behavior is not acceptable in my house either, I'm not a permissive parent but my child REACTS to my discipline. She'll obey but not without voicing her "opinion" on it. If your children obey you and don't react to your discipline they are passive. Please share with us examples of how you address each of these issues and what's your children's reactions.

Thanks.

People are being polite. Let me clarify.

Two sucks more than dragging your bare ass through a mile of shards of glass while being stuck on a 12 hour phone call with your mother in law. One, by comparison, is like having sex with Christian Gray on a beach in Tahiti with a goddamn fireworks show in the background.

Does this clarify?