Anonymous wrote:Knowing they had a very troubled child, they should have put the brakes on the false appearance of normalcy.

Dylan's parents had the wool over their eyes for a good number of years and they knew things were not as they appeared. But it was easier to believe their son was doing ok. They knew damn well he wasn't, in spite of the appearances.

Ms. Klebold worked at a university at the time. Maybe she thought that with her professional connections she would be able to get him counseling/support once he went away to college - If necessary. The Klebolds may have been concerned about stigmatizing their son by having his mental health issues diagnosed in HS. They obviously underestimated the severity of their son's issues.

They were keeping tabs on him through their social connections, the school. Someone would have said something to them if Dylan was going off the deep end, right?

Knowing they had a very troubled child, they should have put the brakes on the false appearance of normalcy.

Dylan's parents had the wool over their eyes for a good number of years and they knew things were not as they appeared. But it was easier to believe their son was doing ok. They knew damn well he wasn't, in spite of the appearances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dylan was not just depressive but is thought to be a secret schizoid type personality.
Eric was a classic psychopath
These are not common or even well understood states. It is only after reading their private journals that trained psychologists were able to classify them.
Lay people like parents, teachers and counsellors didnt stand a chance.

Oh please just come off your high horse. Parents knew they had a very angry kid in their house. This is not rocket science, my friend.

Err - you are mistaken. Diagnosing mental states such as these is probably way harder than rocket science.
Or maybe you are a famour expert in the subject masquerading as an ignoramus on the internet.

I don't know how much the Klebold's saw of their son. Between getting up early and out the door at 5:30am 3 days a week for bowling practice, going to school full time, working at a PT job and hanging out with friends (making videos, amassing a weapons collection with Eric, going out to dinner/prom, watching movies, playing video games etc) and also spending time in his room alone drinking and writing in his diary...the kid was busy.

I think that the Klebolds loved their son and had done the typical activities with him that parents do with their kids (scouts, sports, etc) but that Dylan was going off the rails and had been for a while. The Klebolds both worked and appeared to be relatively well connected so I don't know how much free time they had to really observe their son. They had seen enough to have a nagging worry about him and to search his room but not enough to ever suggest anything as bad as Columbine might happen. That just doesn't enter your mind. I'm sure they felt close to him but in reality I don't know how they could have been spending much time with him given all of their schedules. But that is not all that atypical for a HS student to be busy and away from home a lot - lots of parents/kids are ships passing through the night at that age..

I will read her book. The woman has been through hell, no doubt about that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Yes. Dylan shot people on purpose. I don't know how many he actually killed with the bullets from the gun(s) that he fired himself. Eric shot more people and fired more bullets than Dylan did. I wonder if Dylan was busy trying to detonate bombs...I don't know. The original plan was to blow up the school too. I do wonder if he was hoping to get police to the school by setting off a bomb or two and then blowing the school up once police entered the building. Those bombs didn't go as planned for some reason or more people could have died.

I also find it a bit off putting that Sue Klebold is portraying Eric as "the bad one". Dylan comes off more sympathetically - a depressed kid who was influenced by a bad seed. I don't think it was that simple.

This is exactly how so often the trouble starts..... Parents fail to hold kid responsible for wrong behavior. So of course Susan points her finger at "the other" kid. She's made excuses for poor Dylan his whole life. Something tells me she also came from a troubled childhood, so she felt compelled to "overcompensate" with Dylan.

I also think that when you are dealing with a kid with mental health issues you become concerned that anything you say to them might push them in a direction that you don't want them to go (self harm would be a huge concern I would imagine). She has said that she was worried about him at times but she was choosing to focus in on the positives that Dylan had going on in his life (prom, HS graduation coming up, college after that). Maybe she was seeing an end in sight to the years of teenage angst that she had seen her son experiencing.

To a degree, I think that she was probably choosing to ignore things because she figured that Dylan going away to college would put a quick end to some of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dylan was not just depressive but is thought to be a secret schizoid type personality.
Eric was a classic psychopath
These are not common or even well understood states. It is only after reading their private journals that trained psychologists were able to classify them.
Lay people like parents, teachers and counsellors didnt stand a chance.

Oh please just come off your high horse. Parents knew they had a very angry kid in their house. This is not rocket science, my friend.

Err - you are mistaken. Diagnosing mental states such as these is probably way harder than rocket science.
Or maybe you are a famour expert in the subject masquerading as an ignoramus on the internet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Yes. Dylan shot people on purpose. I don't know how many he actually killed with the bullets from the gun(s) that he fired himself. Eric shot more people and fired more bullets than Dylan did. I wonder if Dylan was busy trying to detonate bombs...I don't know. The original plan was to blow up the school too. I do wonder if he was hoping to get police to the school by setting off a bomb or two and then blowing the school up once police entered the building. Those bombs didn't go as planned for some reason or more people could have died.

I also find it a bit off putting that Sue Klebold is portraying Eric as "the bad one". Dylan comes off more sympathetically - a depressed kid who was influenced by a bad seed. I don't think it was that simple.

This is exactly how so often the trouble starts..... Parents fail to hold kid responsible for wrong behavior. So of course Susan points her finger at "the other" kid. She's made excuses for poor Dylan his whole life. Something tells me she also came from a troubled childhood, so she felt compelled to "overcompensate" with Dylan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Yes. Dylan shot people on purpose. I don't know how many he actually killed with the bullets from the gun(s) that he fired himself. Eric shot more people and fired more bullets than Dylan did. I wonder if Dylan was busy trying to detonate bombs...I don't know. The original plan was to blow up the school too. I do wonder if he was hoping to get police to the school by setting off a bomb or two and then blowing the school up once police entered the building. Those bombs didn't go as planned for some reason or more people could have died.

I also find it a bit off putting that Sue Klebold is portraying Eric as "the bad one". Dylan comes off more sympathetically - a depressed kid who was influenced by a bad seed. I don't think it was that simple.

I don't think it's that simple, either, but I understand what she means. It seems that sociopaths will find someone vulnerable to manipulate into being their sidekick in their sick behavior, but the sidekick wouldn't have the impetus, skill, or pathology to plan or carry out the sociopath's plans alone. That doesn't mean the sidekick is blameless, but just not a conniving mastermind. Klebold was probably looking for someplace to belong and Harris was happy to recruit him.

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Yes. Dylan shot people on purpose. I don't know how many he actually killed with the bullets from the gun(s) that he fired himself. Eric shot more people and fired more bullets than Dylan did. I wonder if Dylan was busy trying to detonate bombs...I don't know. The original plan was to blow up the school too. I do wonder if he was hoping to get police to the school by setting off a bomb or two and then blowing the school up once police entered the building. Those bombs didn't go as planned for some reason or more people could have died.

I also find it a bit off putting that Sue Klebold is portraying Eric as "the bad one". Dylan comes off more sympathetically - a depressed kid who was influenced by a bad seed. I don't think it was that simple.

Anonymous wrote:Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Harris was the ring leader and Klebold was manipulated by him.

Someone mentioned on this or the other thread that Harris did most of the shooting. Is that true? Do they know who shot the most? And, related, of those shots how many were aimed at people and shot people (in other words, did Dylan shoot his gun, but not stopped sort of any killing)?

The piece I can't get over here is how Harris - whose family is not speaking publicly - becomes the one who is the "bad one," even labeled as such by the mother of the Klebold.

Anonymous wrote:Dylan was not just depressive but is thought to be a secret schizoid type personality.
Eric was a classic psychopath
These are not common or even well understood states. It is only after reading their private journals that trained psychologists were able to classify them.
Lay people like parents, teachers and counsellors didnt stand a chance.

Dylan seemed to be a bit delusional in his thinking. I read some of his journal entries and I would be shocked that he was able to keep those delusions such a secret from his parents.

He appeared to be obsessed with and obsessing over a girl at school that he had never even talked to. And it sounds as though he was harboring that obsession for a while and considered this girl to be different (like he was) from other humans - more aware with a higher level of understanding than regular humans. Then suddenly his focus shifted away from this love obsession and it was all about the Columbine plan.

Anonymous wrote:Dylan was not just depressive but is thought to be a secret schizoid type personality.
Eric was a classic psychopath
These are not common or even well understood states. It is only after reading their private journals that trained psychologists were able to classify them.
Lay people like parents, teachers and counsellors didnt stand a chance.

Oh please just come off your high horse. Parents knew they had a very angry kid in their house. This is not rocket science, my friend.

Dylan was not just depressive but is thought to be a secret schizoid type personality.
Eric was a classic psychopath
These are not common or even well understood states. It is only after reading their private journals that trained psychologists were able to classify them.
Lay people like parents, teachers and counsellors didnt stand a chance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know when your kid is in trouble, even if you don't how bad or exactly in what way.

Sure. They did know he was in trouble. But they thought he was depressed i.e. not a danger to others.

Harris was a sociopath. That's a whole different ballgame.

I think the theory is that Harris was a born psychopath. He was born with missing ingredients and nothing his parents did/did not do was going to change that. Columbine was not inevitable but Eric was not fixable.

With Dylan the theory is that he was a functioning depressive. Going out with friends, getting himself up for early morning bowling practice, going to prom, etc. I actually am amazed that an extremely depressed, hopeless, suicidal person could have been functioning so well in his day to day life. I don't know that most severely depressed people could do that, in fact, just getting out of bed every day can be struggle.

Dylan seemed to be filled with rage - where was that coming from and how did it tie in with his depression?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know when your kid is in trouble, even if you don't how bad or exactly in what way.

Sure. They did know he was in trouble. But they thought he was depressed i.e. not a danger to others.

Harris was a sociopath. That's a whole different ballgame.

Doesn't every killer have depression on some level?

Maybe? The point was that they thought he was just suffering from depression and most depressed people aren't a danger to others.