Is someone equating going to the Smithsonian as a teaching tool that will cure AA's problems in school? If that was the case, the average native Washingtonian has not visited the tourist attractions here in DC. C'mon, it can't be that plain and simple to say, the only thing parents need to do is tour and read to their children. Once that is done, you are destined to have a scholarly child.

I know some residents that will tour all of the Washington landmarks and read to their children in the park but will not venture into SE or certain sections of NE because of what they read as adults. Sheesh!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not about taking your kids to museums or the zoo, although it's great if you do that. The vocabulary gap is caused by SES and educational level of parents. Has to do with what your vocabulary and background knowledge are, and your level of education.

Not necessarily.

Back at the turn of the century, when Slavic, Italian and other immigrants arrived in America, they were dirt poor, they couldn't speak the language, they spat on, denigrated, they were discriminated against, they were forbidden from going to certain churches, certain businesses, and from living in certain neighborhoods.

What turned it around?

Hard work. The kids were who learned the language, who became literate, who studied, who worked hard, and who as a result rose in SES to get out of the ghetto. Their parents' limited vocabulary did not hold them back. The difference is that the immigrant parents considered this to be a land of opportunity, where you can get ahead in life if you work hard at it. They didn't sit around waiting for someone else to get them out of the ghetto. But those who have been here all along do not see it, and as a result do not work hard at getting educated, do not work hard at getting a good job, and as a result remain stuck in the same SES for generations.

read the word gap study.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not about taking your kids to museums or the zoo, although it's great if you do that. The vocabulary gap is caused by SES and educational level of parents. Has to do with what your vocabulary and background knowledge are, and your level of education.

Not necessarily.

Back at the turn of the century, when Slavic, Italian and other immigrants arrived in America, they were dirt poor, they couldn't speak the language, they spat on, denigrated, they were discriminated against, they were forbidden from going to certain churches, certain businesses, and from living in certain neighborhoods.

What turned it around?

Hard work. The kids were who learned the language, who became literate, who studied, who worked hard, and who as a result rose in SES to get out of the ghetto. Their parents' limited vocabulary did not hold them back. The difference is that the immigrant parents considered this to be a land of opportunity, where you can get ahead in life if you work hard at it. They didn't sit around waiting for someone else to get them out of the ghetto. But those who have been here all along do not see it, and as a result do not work hard at getting educated, do not work hard at getting a good job, and as a result remain stuck in the same SES for generations.

Two totally different situations. One main thing is that immigrants were able to keep most elements of their culture and language intact as well as strong family bonds. If we are going to make these types of broad generalizations, I think its wise to understand how different the experiences were.

Actually many schools actually taught in their native languages. NPR did an interesting series on how common this was clear through the 1930's. Also what you needed for working in a textile factory then is a lot less than what you need today even to work in a place like Target or most manufacturing jobs. Also consider where those folks settled and factories moved (think Ohio, Michgan) there is a substantial testing gap, it is just poor white people versus rich white people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not about taking your kids to museums or the zoo, although it's great if you do that. The vocabulary gap is caused by SES and educational level of parents. Has to do with what your vocabulary and background knowledge are, and your level of education.

Not necessarily.

Back at the turn of the century, when Slavic, Italian and other immigrants arrived in America, they were dirt poor, they couldn't speak the language, they spat on, denigrated, they were discriminated against, they were forbidden from going to certain churches, certain businesses, and from living in certain neighborhoods.

What turned it around?

Hard work. The kids were who learned the language, who became literate, who studied, who worked hard, and who as a result rose in SES to get out of the ghetto. Their parents' limited vocabulary did not hold them back. The difference is that the immigrant parents considered this to be a land of opportunity, where you can get ahead in life if you work hard at it. They didn't sit around waiting for someone else to get them out of the ghetto. But those who have been here all along do not see it, and as a result do not work hard at getting educated, do not work hard at getting a good job, and as a result remain stuck in the same SES for generations.

There was not testing or achievement gap during this period. Simply no way to compare different eras.

^ they spat on / they were spat on

Anonymous wrote:It's not about taking your kids to museums or the zoo, although it's great if you do that. The vocabulary gap is caused by SES and educational level of parents. Has to do with what your vocabulary and background knowledge are, and your level of education.

Not necessarily.

Back at the turn of the century, when Slavic, Italian and other immigrants arrived in America, they were dirt poor, they couldn't speak the language, they spat on, denigrated, they were discriminated against, they were forbidden from going to certain churches, certain businesses, and from living in certain neighborhoods.

What turned it around?

Hard work. The kids were who learned the language, who became literate, who studied, who worked hard, and who as a result rose in SES to get out of the ghetto. Their parents' limited vocabulary did not hold them back. The difference is that the immigrant parents considered this to be a land of opportunity, where you can get ahead in life if you work hard at it. They didn't sit around waiting for someone else to get them out of the ghetto. But those who have been here all along do not see it, and as a result do not work hard at getting educated, do not work hard at getting a good job, and as a result remain stuck in the same SES for generations.

It's not about taking your kids to museums or the zoo, although it's great if you do that. The vocabulary gap is caused by SES and educational level of parents. Has to do with what your vocabulary and background knowledge are, and your level of education.

Given that I still regularly meet AA kids who when asked if they've ever been to the Smithsonian museums, say "no" or if they go to the library, say "no" that shows that there is no deliberate action on the part of the parents to get them there. And, they're FREE. There's absolutely no legitimate excuse for any parent to not once get their kid to the Smithsonians or the library in 10 or 15 years of living in the District. The kids that have gone to the museum get interested in geology, dinosaurs, biology, aviation - you name it.

Tutoring? Too many parents won't bother, even if it's available. Yet they'll get their kid to sports practice.

All the sports practice in the world won't likely ever get them out of low-SES as adults, better chance of getting struck by lightning than making it big in sports - but an education will more likely raise kids from low-SES. Going to the museum will. Going to the library will.

Priorities are all screwed up.

Anonymous wrote:crazy? moron? Gee, I just think you're a little uptight about all this stuff. you don't need kiddie college. Just be a good parent.

What are you looking for, some kind of special affirmation for doing the things that all good parents do?

Well, here you go:

"CHILL OUT!"

and

be a be a good parent.

The PP is right - one can't say that parents aren't engaged enough to give their kids the help they need when they are younger but then tell parents who do that they need to "chill out" because they are hyper parenting. Which is it? Should parents work hard in the early years to make sure the achievement gap will be closed or should they "chill out" and just hope for the best? Isn't that problem? Isn't that what many parents did?

Those parents who chilled out are "good" parents - they love their kids, take care of them, don't abuse them, etc - but not having the skills and education to know what else to do to help them. That doesn't make someone not a "good" parent. We should want to support parents like the PP who are doing all they can in the early years to make sure that the school years go smoothly.

And PP is right, any race high SES parents all over this area are making sure their toddlers and preschoolers have accumulated enough classes and experiences to have a complete resume by Kindergarten. Having gone through the private school app process for K in this area, my child certainly needed a resume that included her "interests", her favorite past times, ways we spend time as a family, etc and writting down my kid sat at home watching kiddie tv for 4 years was not going to cut it.

I think the Loundon article was spot on with the notion of deliberate action. For many AA parents, and I am a single AA mom, it is not always clear which actions matter most when looking at academic achievement for our children- especially for our sons
Much of the advise given at schools is frankly doesn't matter-set rules, have a routine, make sure your child reads.... (my personal experience is that teachers assume such structures are not in place when frequently they are). In reality there is an inside scoop on academic success that is rarely put into practice.
In terms of what makes the real difference for everyone's achievement. High expectations + high support.
Having intentional, unflinchingly clear and high expectation and a sense of efficacy to see those expectation realized seems to be the ticket.

This is something majority parents and those of higher SES seem to take for granted due to their access and resources.It also doesn;t hurt to have ongoing practice of mathematical reasoning and academic English necessary for advancement in higher level coursework. Highly educated parents realize the extent to which math and language fluency are the gatekeepers (and confidence builders) in academic achievement and will stop at no expense to ensure that their child has that skill sets.
However beyond the skill concern there is the social drudgery of school.I have found that my son has faced messages from school staff that he will not measure up. As he transitions form 8th grade at Latin to attend Walls the only comment his MS school administrator had for him were derisive ones, which really hurt his feelings. Living a dual reality of institutionalized low expectation and high aspirations is a BURDEN. Yet such is the schooling scene for AA males and the most frustrating part is that it is beyond their control and yet they are blamed.
What is in my control -- talking every opportunity to remind my kiddo not to give into other peoples BS, focus on your goals, be confident and recognize any signs of self sabotage. Take extra classes online, I hate the fact that we still have to be in 'twice as good to get half the credit' mode but were not taking chances with the future. My son wants a PhD in a technological field and will make it-because he will receive 100% support in reaching it. Full stop. Period end of story.
And for those on this thred who assume that 'other' parents don't care about their children's education you may want to pull you head out of your self righteousness long enough to observe just what is happening at your child's school. Is there differential engagement and discipline being practices? Are there opportunities for all children to shine or only your precious angel?. School is a reflection of society and generally speaking the view is a bit ugly when you truly open your eyes.

I think the Loundon article was spot on with the notion of deliberate action. For many AA parents, and I am a single AA mom, it is not always clear which actions matter most when looking at academic achievement for our children- especially for our sons
Much of the advise given at schools is frankly doesn't matter-set rules, have a routine, make sure your child reads.... (my personal experience is that teachers assume such structures are not in place when frequently they are). In reality there is an inside scoop on academic success that is rarely put into practice.
In terms of what makes the real difference for everyone's achievement. High expectations + high support.
Having intentional, unflinchingly clear and high expectation and a sense of efficacy to see those expectation realized seems to be the ticket.

This is something majority parents and those of higher SES seem to take for granted due to their access and resources.It also doesn;t hurt to have ongoing practice of mathematical reasoning and academic English necessary for advancement in higher level coursework. Highly educated parents realize the extent to which math and language fluency are the gatekeepers (and confidence builders) in academic achievement and will stop at no expense to ensure that their child has that skill sets.
However beyond the skill concern there is the social drudgery of school.I have found that my son has faced messages from school staff that he will not measure up. As he transitions form 8th grade at Latin to attend Walls the only comment his MS school administrator had for him were derisive ones, which really hurt his feelings. Living a dual reality of institutionalized low expectation and high aspirations is a BURDEN. Yet such is the schooling scene for AA males and the most frustrating part is that it is beyond their control and yet they are blamed.
What is in my control -- talking every opportunity to remind my kiddo not to give into other peoples BS, focus on your goals, be confident and recognize any signs of self sabotage. Take extra classes online, I hate the fact that we still have to be in 'twice as good to get half the credit' mode but were not taking chances with the future. My son wants a PhD in a technological field and will make it-because he will receive 100% support in reaching it. Full stop. Period end of story.
And for those on this thred who assume that 'other' parents don't care about their children's education you may want to pull you head out of your self righteousness long enough to observe just what is happening at your child's school. Is there differential engagement and discipline being practices? Are there opportunities for all children to shine or only your precious angel?. School is a reflection of society and generally speaking the view is a bit ugly when you truly open your eyes.

Anonymous wrote:What in the hell happened. I left the blog around entry 99 or so and then it went from conversational blogging to chill-out confrontation. Whoa, Nellie!!!.

Go to Page 6- first post at the top of the page

What in the hell happened. I left the blog around entry 99 or so and then it went from conversational blogging to chill-out confrontation. Whoa, Nellie!!!.

And you are right. I don't need Baby College or Kiddie College. Because I am educated enough to know that reading to your kids matter. Unfortunetly, mnay parents who don't have the same educational background don't realize that and they don't adequately prepare their child to succeed and thus the insuing achievement gap. (Hint: that was the subject of this thread -"Achievement Gap").