Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

What about interfaith marriage?

I would still say that interfaith marriage is not comparable to racism and segregation based on skin color. You can hide your religion.

Would you have a problem if a state decided to ban interfaith marriages?

If states banned interfaith marriage it would still not be comparable to lynchings, racism, or segregated facilities. There would still be many places to retreat to for interfaith marriage. I do not think that those discriminated against based on race could easily leave the country and not face similar discrimination. There is racism in many countries, there was a thread about racism in Spain recently in the travel forum. It would still be easier for an interfaith couple to be accepted in Spain for instance. Just one country out of many with color complexes.

I agree. The fight for gay rights is a fight for civil rights, but it's not the American Civil Rights Movement and to equate the two does an injustice to both.

I agree that in 100 years, society will think it was absurd to ban gay marriage. It is. But it simply does not compare to lynching, being a piece of property, being defined as 3/5 of a person, mass killings in towns, an average of one person per day being murdered in a town during the Nadir of US race relations, schools being burned down, churches being bombed- and all this either written ino the law of the nation or condoned by way of indifference or even encouragement.

They do not compare, so let's not try to. Horrible things have happened because of racism. Horrible things have happened because of homophobia. Let's do them justice by treating them as separate issues.

This. These should be separate issues, it is unfair to both groups to combine these.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

What about interfaith marriage?

I would still say that interfaith marriage is not comparable to racism and segregation based on skin color. You can hide your religion.

Would you have a problem if a state decided to ban interfaith marriages?

If states banned interfaith marriage it would still not be comparable to lynchings, racism, or segregated facilities. There would still be many places to retreat to for interfaith marriage. I do not think that those discriminated against based on race could easily leave the country and not face similar discrimination. There is racism in many countries, there was a thread about racism in Spain recently in the travel forum. It would still be easier for an interfaith couple to be accepted in Spain for instance. Just one country out of many with color complexes.

I agree. The fight for gay rights is a fight for civil rights, but it's not the American Civil Rights Movement and to equate the two does an injustice to both.

I agree that in 100 years, society will think it was absurd to ban gay marriage. It is. But it simply does not compare to lynching, being a piece of property, being defined as 3/5 of a person, mass killings in towns, an average of one person per day being murdered in a town during the Nadir of US race relations, schools being burned down, churches being bombed- and all this either written ino the law of the nation or condoned by way of indifference or even encouragement.

They do not compare, so let's not try to. Horrible things have happened because of racism. Horrible things have happened because of homophobia. Let's do them justice by treating them as separate issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

being in the closet is not the point. The point is society denying people rights because of their race/gender/sexual orientation. Essentially saying to them, "you are not doing anything wrong, we just don't like your kind"

In the eyes of most Americans, would they say it is easier to be a gay white man in America or a black man of any sexual orientation in this country? I still believe that the gay or straight white man would be given the advantages. There are many people of all races that would lock their doors or cross the street if a Black man approached even if he was a gay Black man. I believe these issues are larger than sexual orientation discrimination.

Yeah maybe it's "easier" to be black in 2012. Ask that same question circa 1700-1970 and you'd find varying degrees of dissenting opinions.

There is still racism within the gay community. Just because you are sensitive to discrimination to one group or another does not mean that you cannot have a racist outlook. There was a recent article on a gay bar posting an image of Obama as a chimpanzee within an advertisement that upset some.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120208/NEWS01/302080101/obama-joke-gay-bar-owner-louisville?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News

http://www.wfpl.org/2012/02/09/fairness-black-gay-pride-plan-procott-at-tryangles-bar-friday-audio/

Yes, and there's still homophobia in the black community. Obvs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for making me wonder if some of our straight friends secretly think our marriage should be recognized.

sad to think pp but they probably do.

PP, If I'm one of your straight friends, I hope you know that I cried when CA passed Prop 8 and cheered for the decision overturning it and for every state recognizing marriage equality. I don't show you how excited I am about it because I don't want you to think that I'm only talking to you about it because you're gay.

And, I am happy that my kids have you in their lives because if one or more turns out to be gay or lesbian, I am glad that they will have someone in their lives that can understand them in a way that I'm unable to. And if they're straight I'm thrilled that they will be able to laugh at the absurd caricatures of gays and lesbians painted by the right-wings because they know firsthand how kind and committed you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

What about interfaith marriage?

I would still say that interfaith marriage is not comparable to racism and segregation based on skin color. You can hide your religion.

Would you have a problem if a state decided to ban interfaith marriages?

If states banned interfaith marriage it would still not be comparable to lynchings, racism, or segregated facilities. There would still be many places to retreat to for interfaith marriage. I do not think that those discriminated against based on race could easily leave the country and not face similar discrimination. There is racism in many countries, there was a thread about racism in Spain recently in the travel forum. It would still be easier for an interfaith couple to be accepted in Spain for instance. Just one country out of many with color complexes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

being in the closet is not the point. The point is society denying people rights because of their race/gender/sexual orientation. Essentially saying to them, "you are not doing anything wrong, we just don't like your kind"

In the eyes of most Americans, would they say it is easier to be a gay white man in America or a black man of any sexual orientation in this country? I still believe that the gay or straight white man would be given the advantages. There are many people of all races that would lock their doors or cross the street if a Black man approached even if he was a gay Black man. I believe these issues are larger than sexual orientation discrimination.

Yeah maybe it's "easier" to be black in 2012. Ask that same question circa 1700-1970 and you'd find varying degrees of dissenting opinions.

There is still racism within the gay community. Just because you are sensitive to discrimination to one group or another does not mean that you cannot have a racist outlook. There was a recent article on a gay bar posting an image of Obama as a chimpanzee within an advertisement that upset some.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120208/NEWS01/302080101/obama-joke-gay-bar-owner-louisville?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News

http://www.wfpl.org/2012/02/09/fairness-black-gay-pride-plan-procott-at-tryangles-bar-friday-audio/

Yes, and there's still homophobia in the black community. Obvs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for making me wonder if some of our straight friends secretly think our marriage should be recognized.

sad to think pp but they probably do.

PP, If I'm one of your straight friends, I hope you know that I cried when CA passed Prop 8 and cheered for the decision overturning it and for every state recognizing marriage equality. I don't show you how excited I am about it because I don't want you to think that I'm only talking to you about it because you're gay.

And, I am happy that my kids have you in their lives because if one or more turns out to be gay or lesbian, I am glad that they will have someone in their lives that can understand them in a way that I'm unable to. And if they're straight I'm thrilled that they will be able to laugh at the absurd caricatures of gays and lesbians painted by the right-wings because they know firsthand how kind and committed you are.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

No one was ever in the closet about their race though. Unless you could easily pass as a white person, black people were unable to hide their race. You can hide your sexuality and because of this I would not say that it is comparable to racism or slavery. While no one should ever have to hide it, it is possible unlike skin color.

being in the closet is not the point. The point is society denying people rights because of their race/gender/sexual orientation. Essentially saying to them, "you are not doing anything wrong, we just don't like your kind"

In the eyes of most Americans, would they say it is easier to be a gay white man in America or a black man of any sexual orientation in this country? I still believe that the gay or straight white man would be given the advantages. There are many people of all races that would lock their doors or cross the street if a Black man approached even if he was a gay Black man. I believe these issues are larger than sexual orientation discrimination.

Yeah maybe it's "easier" to be black in 2012. Ask that same question circa 1700-1970 and you'd find varying degrees of dissenting opinions.

There is still racism within the gay community. Just because you are sensitive to discrimination to one group or another does not mean that you cannot have a racist outlook. There was a recent article on a gay bar posting an image of Obama as a chimpanzee within an advertisement that upset some.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120208/NEWS01/302080101/obama-joke-gay-bar-owner-louisville?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News

http://www.wfpl.org/2012/02/09/fairness-black-gay-pride-plan-procott-at-tryangles-bar-friday-audio/

Anonymous wrote:Well, since we're confessing our deep seated prejudices, I'm a lesbian and....

I think SAHMs are living half a life and after about 10 minutes at home, their brains start to decay till they literally become as intelligent and interesting as their infants.

I think WOHMs who hire and proceed to micromanage their nannys should never have had children to begin with. Those are little people, lady, not fashion accessories.

I think anyone who pays $1M for a house and anything at all for education before college is a pretentious moron.

I think $1,500 double strollers are a sign of the apocalypse.

I think those yoga pants make your ass look HUGE.

I'm sorry, I think I got off the subject.... what were you saying about me again?

You are awesome PP, lesbians are totally way cool. Like hamsters and circus freaks.


Kidding Kidding *You people* are cool like regular people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm convinced it is a choice, but that societal pressures repress many from making that choice. So while I don't really care about it, I don't think we should provide civil, protected-class, type rights on something that is basically a choice.

And by "choice", what I mean is that there is some homo-hetero spectrum. Maybe less than 1% are on the extreme homo side where they are solely that way, and maybe 50% are solely hetero on the other side. But I think a good percentage, say 10-15% each, are close enough to the middle where they could honestly go either way based on circumstances in their upbringing and based on their life experiences.

Have you ever had a family member that is gay? Did you get to see them grow up? I have a gay family member. Let me tell you, I knew from the time he was 5 that he was going to be gay. For what it's worth, him and his straight brother were raised exactly the same. It's really not a choice and I can't believe people actually think that.

so every gay person is exactly like your brother? maybe he is the extreme (1% or whatever) that is 100% homo. I'm a hetero man, but I'm sure in different circumstances I would have a gay relationship. Say I was raised in ancient Greece or Rome and it was accepted. Or say I was in jail with all men for 20 years. Whatever, a mouth is a mouth. I just think it is not that obvious, and to say there is no choice just insults gay people even more so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I feel the exact same way you do. I think some people are probably born gay, but I think that's probably quite rare. I think for most gay people, it is a mental illness, for lack of a better term. I am in no way qualified to make that assumption, but it's just my thought. I don't know how else to explain why gay went from being seemingly quite rare to being 1 out of 10 people, I guess is what they are saying these days. And just about every tv show has at least one gay character. I wonder if people get kind of brainwashed - there is something about a gay tv character that they relate to, so they begin to feel they might be gay too. Ok, I've reached my quota of offensiveness, so I better sign off for now.

Homosexuality has not increased. People are more aware of it and people feel comfortable coming out of the closet due to that. And FYI - someone in the closet is still gay even if they are not "out" about it.

It does not fit the definition of a mental illness. Homosexuals are no different then heterosexuals.

How do you explain those kids that already have the gay lisp and are designing clothes and sashaying around at 10 years old? This shit definitely didn't happen when I was a kid--nor did boys trying to kiss boys on the elementary school playground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One day most likely you will find that someone you love dearly is gay--a child, a sibling, perhaps a best friend--and you will hopefully find it in your heart to let them be who are they meant to be. We knew my littlest brother was "different" at the age of 6 (we didn't want to steer him one way or other but many many clues were there)! He is an adult now and very out of the closet, no surprise; completely blindsided by other brother coming out of the closet soon after (he was a boy's boy). But both are happier now, not pretending to be what they are not. Wishing you peace on your path to acceptance.

I often wonder what it's like to have 2 or more gay members of your immediate family.

You often wonder? How much time could the wondering take? Would you enjoy thinking about art or clouds even food more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for making me wonder if some of our straight friends secretly think our marriage should be recognized.

sad to think pp but they probably do.

PP, If I'm one of your straight friends, I hope you know that I cried when CA passed Prop 8 and cheered for the decision overturning it and for every state recognizing marriage equality. I don't show you how excited I am about it because I don't want you to think that I'm only talking to you about it because you're gay.

And, I am happy that my kids have you in their lives because if one or more turns out to be gay or lesbian, I am glad that they will have someone in their lives that can understand them in a way that I'm unable to. And if they're straight I'm thrilled that they will be able to laugh at the absurd caricatures of gays and lesbians painted by the right-wings because they know firsthand how kind and committed you are.