Anonymous wrote:

Alright, but if Catholics are going to put themselves out there and try to legislate their beliefs then they can't cry "bigot" every time someone writes about how they are offended and think their beliefs are unjust! Voice any opposition to Catholic beliefs on this website and you WILL get called a bigot. I do not hate Catholics but I AM offended by Catholic beliefs. If they confined their beliefs to their parishoners I wouldn't have much to say about them. But they don't. So they open themselves up to criticism. They are not exempt from it just because they are a religion.

I am also not the only person to voice this but every time someone does they are lumped together as if we are all one "bigoted" poster. Guess what!? We are not. Lots of people are offended by Catholic beliefs on sexuality and as the Catholic church has inserted itself into modern American politics do feel justified in criticizing those beliefs.

Here's the big difference: most of us have learned that it's wrong to denigrate gays and lesbians for their sexual orientation. We've learned not to denigrate Jews. Most of us have definitely matured in our political discourse.

But your anti-catholic hate talk (and I agree with the poster who says it is hate talk) has not matured one bit. You're still in the 1950s with the Mad Men crowd, but while they sneer at women and jews, you sneer at Catholics. Congratulations on being a trogdolyte throwback.

Anonymous wrote:It is not just the Catholic Church that inserts itself into modern politics. Do you hate all evangelical churches, too? Jews are certainly apart of politics (for different reasons) ands o are many other groups. Do you hate everyone who holds a viewpoint different than your own? The beauty of America is that we are entitled to hold different beliefs and use our vote to promote those beliefs. Do you have a problem with that also?

I think you should more concerned in your ability to find hate where none has been stated. Are you the same poster that calls a poster anti-Semitic every time someone else posts that they disagree with Israeli politics?

Also, if we wanted to live by your religious beliefs, don't you think we could join your religion? If you think everyone should follow the religious laws of their neighbors, please start wearing a hijab.

Anonymous wrote:

So let me understand this. You obviously have your beliefs, which are obviously different from the catholics' beliefs. But *you are entitled* to use the political system to get policies you like, whereas *they are not entitled* to use the political system to get policies they like?

I am also not the only person to voice this but every time someone does they are lumped together as if we are all one "bigoted" poster. Guess what!? We are not. Lots of people are offended by Catholic beliefs on sexuality and as the Catholic church has inserted itself into modern American politics do feel justified in criticizing those beliefs.

It is not just the Catholic Church that inserts itself into modern politics. Do you hate all evangelical churches, too? Jews are certainly apart of politics (for different reasons) ands o are many other groups. Do you hate everyone who holds a viewpoint different than your own? The beauty of America is that we are entitled to hold different beliefs and use our vote to promote those beliefs. Do you have a problem with that also?

Who said that I HATE them? Those are your words. Yes, of course, I disagree with any group of people, be they evangelical christians, Catholics, Jews, athiests or (insert affiliated group of people here) who hold and publish/publicize/make known to those outside their community, beliefs similar to those expounded upon in the excerpt from the Catholic catechism above re; homosexuality. Here we weret akling about Catholics. And again, here, if one says they find the Catholic teaching on homosexuality to be unjust and discriminatory they are labelled a bigot. Even though the church seeks to hold everyone in the US legally to their beliefs. I do not HATE Catholics but I do HATE the beliefs they hold on sexuality BECAUSE they try to impose them on everyone regardless of religious affiliation. Of course they aren't the only people to do that, but what has that got to do with this conversation? There are evidently some people who cannot accept any criticism of their church as anything other than bigotry and that is too bad since I think we could put the numbers iin the millions of Americans who don't agree with the church regarding sexuality and homosexuality.

So OP, is your husband doing this despite your obvious misgivings? Are you still talking about it?

To the others, is there a way to know if someone is a mason? I don't think I know any, but you never know! There are a few creepy men I work with that I'd be TOTALLY unsurprised to learn were masons, just based on the fact that I could see them eating a live chicken's head, etc.

So let me understand this. You obviously have your beliefs, which are obviously different from the catholics' beliefs. But *you are entitled* to use the political system to get policies you like, whereas *they are not entitled* to use the political system to get policies they like?

I am also not the only person to voice this but every time someone does they are lumped together as if we are all one "bigoted" poster. Guess what!? We are not. Lots of people are offended by Catholic beliefs on sexuality and as the Catholic church has inserted itself into modern American politics do feel justified in criticizing those beliefs.

It is not just the Catholic Church that inserts itself into modern politics. Do you hate all evangelical churches, too? Jews are certainly apart of politics (for different reasons) ands o are many other groups. Do you hate everyone who holds a viewpoint different than your own? The beauty of America is that we are entitled to hold different beliefs and use our vote to promote those beliefs. Do you have a problem with that also?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to join, but is it true that they do not accept Catholics?

My FIL was born and raised Catholic and he is a mason. I think having become a mason and seeing God and spirituality in a different light, made his Catholic beliefs fall by the wayside a bit. Though, I am not sure where the whole thing about them not accepting Catholics came from. If that was the case, there would be no masons at all in South America...and there are a lot of masons in South America. There are masonic lodges all over the world.

I'm the poster who told the story about the Demolay friend and his dad. They converted to a Protestant church and left the Masons. I'm from SA.

Most of the masons are not Christian at all. It's very common to hear testimonies of former Masons who abandoned the order after converting to Christianity and if a Christian joins the order he keeps it a secret. And not everybody in SA is Catholic. The numbers are inflated by the Carholic church and most of the people follow anoter religion (most santeria related or spiritualist related) but still say they're CAtholics just because of the tradition.

you have to believe in God to be a Mason, most are Jewish or some sort of Christian. You have no idea what your talking about.

Fwiw, every "secret" bit of masonic rite, ritual, and ceremony is in The Library of Congress.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, Google "Masons Catholic Church" if you would like to learn more about their beliefs, rituals, history, and intent.

It is true that Catholics cannot join, because it is an anti-Catholic institution.

Maybe they'll change their mind. Ya know, like how the Mormons did about blacks.

Wrong. The Masons are not anti-catholic. The Catholic church is anti Mason. You can be mason and be catholic, you cannot be catholic and be mason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Orthodox Jews do omething bad to Masons? The anti Jewish comments on this thread seem personal. Plus all of the anti Catholic sentiments. Clearly, the Masons on this thread have shown themselves to be anti religion. And possibly anti-Semitic.

I'm not Jewish or Catholic but respect their beliefs and those who adhere to them. The defensive Masons here trying to tear down other people's religious beliefs in order to try and defend theirs are doing a terrible job of representing their weirdo cult. LOL.

I don't even know why these threads are allowed to remain! Isn't there a secret Scientologist meeting which teaches you how to shut down internet dissent? Didn't you guys get the powerpoint? Tearing down Christians is amateur. Shouldn't you be calling in lawyers now?

I think most of the posters on this thread are women. FYI: women can't be Masons.

OP here -

I am NOT upset that Masons exclude women.

I am simply disgusted by its secrecy. And the more I look into it, the more freakishly weird I think this organization is.

voila! a way to recruit the Millennials - http://www.millennialfreemason.com/2011/05/young-freemason-network.html

Enjoy your manly bonding!

yuck

I'm the "FYI: women can't be Masons" poster. I was only pointing that out to the quoted poster that was accusing the other posters of being Masons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't want to tell Catholics what to believe. I want them to stop trying (through legal means) to tell ME (and my friends and neighbors) what to believe and how to live. Get it?

So let me understand this. You obviously have your beliefs, which are obviously different from the catholics' beliefs. But *you are entitled* to use the political system to get policies you like, whereas *they are not entitled* to use the political system to get policies they like?

Moron. It's called a democracy. I hate it when Republicans cut taxes so they can use it as an excuse to cut services to the poor, or when they use the debt limit. But I don't demonize them, and make horrible caractures of them, the way you do to catholics.

(I'm not catholic, but I'm really sick of your moronic posts. And I also suspect you're simply the type of person who needs an object to hate on, at least until you resolve whatever else it is that's making you so angry -- so that no logic from me is going to convince you.)

Alright, but if Catholics are going to put themselves out there and try to legislate their beliefs then they can't cry "bigot" every time someone writes about how they are offended and think their beliefs are unjust! Voice any opposition to Catholic beliefs on this website and you WILL get called a bigot. I do not hate Catholics but I AM offended by Catholic beliefs. If they confined their beliefs to their parishoners I wouldn't have much to say about them. But they don't. So they open themselves up to criticism. They are not exempt from it just because they are a religion.

I am also not the only person to voice this but every time someone does they are lumped together as if we are all one "bigoted" poster. Guess what!? We are not. Lots of people are offended by Catholic beliefs on sexuality and as the Catholic church has inserted itself into modern American politics do feel justified in criticizing those beliefs.

And I am not a Mason nor do I ahve anything to do with Masons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Orthodox Jews do omething bad to Masons? The anti Jewish comments on this thread seem personal. Plus all of the anti Catholic sentiments. Clearly, the Masons on this thread have shown themselves to be anti religion. And possibly anti-Semitic.

I'm not Jewish or Catholic but respect their beliefs and those who adhere to them. The defensive Masons here trying to tear down other people's religious beliefs in order to try and defend theirs are doing a terrible job of representing their weirdo cult. LOL.

I don't even know why these threads are allowed to remain! Isn't there a secret Scientologist meeting which teaches you how to shut down internet dissent? Didn't you guys get the powerpoint? Tearing down Christians is amateur. Shouldn't you be calling in lawyers now?

I think most of the posters on this thread are women. FYI: women can't be Masons.

OP here -

I am NOT upset that Masons exclude women.

I am simply disgusted by its secrecy. And the more I look into it, the more freakishly weird I think this organization is.

voila! a way to recruit the Millennials - http://www.millennialfreemason.com/2011/05/young-freemason-network.html

Enjoy your manly bonding!

yuck

Anonymous wrote:Did Orthodox Jews do something bad to Masons? The anti Jewish comments on this thread seem personal. Plus all of the anti Catholic sentiments. Clearly, the Masons on this thread have shown themselves to be anti religion. And possibly anti-Semitic.

I'm not Jewish or Catholic but respect their beliefs and those who adhere to them. The defensive Masons here trying to tear down other people's religious beliefs in order to try and defend theirs are doing a terrible job of representing their weirdo cult. LOL.

I don't even know why these threads are allowed to remain! Isn't there a secret Scientologist meeting which teaches you how to shut down internet dissent? Didn't you guys get the powerpoint? Tearing down Christians is amateur. Shouldn't you be calling in lawyers now?

I think most of the posters on this thread are women. FYI: women can't be Masons.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't want to tell Catholics what to believe. I want them to stop trying (through legal means) to tell ME (and my friends and neighbors) what to believe and how to live. Get it?

So let me understand this. You obviously have your beliefs, which are obviously different from the catholics' beliefs. But *you are entitled* to use the political system to get policies you like, whereas *they are not entitled* to use the political system to get policies they like?

Moron. It's called a democracy. I hate it when Republicans cut taxes so they can use it as an excuse to cut services to the poor, or when they use the debt limit. But I don't demonize them, and make horrible caractures of them, the way you do to catholics.

(I'm not catholic, but I'm really sick of your moronic posts. And I also suspect you're simply the type of person who needs an object to hate on, at least until you resolve whatever else it is that's making you so angry -- so that no logic from me is going to convince you.)

Anonymous wrote:Did Orthodox Jews do something bad to Masons? The anti Jewish comments on this thread seem personal. Plus all of the anti Catholic sentiments. Clearly, the Masons on this thread have shown themselves to be anti religion. And possibly anti-Semitic.

I'm not Jewish or Catholic but respect their beliefs and those who adhere to them. The defensive Masons here trying to tear down other people's religious beliefs in order to try and defend theirs are doing a terrible job of representing their weirdo cult. LOL.

I don't even know why these threads are allowed to remain! Isn't there a secret Scientologist meeting which teaches you how to shut down internet dissent? Didn't you guys get the powerpoint? Tearing down Christians is amateur. Shouldn't you be calling in lawyers now?

You are either a troll, or totally unable to comprehend what was being said. All I was trying to say is that Orthodox Judaism is cult like. Evangelical Christians are cult like. I was not tearing down any religion. I have family members who are Orthodox and I respect them and their beliefs. I personally feel it is very much like a cult...but I still respect what they choose to believe. Just because I feel a certain way does not mean I am disrespecting them or that what I believe is the end all, be all. I am no religion, nor am I a Mason. You have every right to feel as you do about this "weirdo cult", but you are obviously uneducated in what it really is about. If you are going off of what people on an anonymous board are saying, then that is incredibly naive of you. However, I have a feeling you are a troll and I am simply feeding into you.

Did Orthodox Jews do something bad to Masons? The anti Jewish comments on this thread seem personal. Plus all of the anti Catholic sentiments. Clearly, the Masons on this thread have shown themselves to be anti religion. And possibly anti-Semitic.

I'm not Jewish or Catholic but respect their beliefs and those who adhere to them. The defensive Masons here trying to tear down other people's religious beliefs in order to try and defend theirs are doing a terrible job of representing their weirdo cult. LOL.

I don't even know why these threads are allowed to remain! Isn't there a secret Scientologist meeting which teaches you how to shut down internet dissent? Didn't you guys get the powerpoint? Tearing down Christians is amateur. Shouldn't you be calling in lawyers now?

Anonymous wrote:

Second I do not think that sex within marriage must be both unitive and procreative. I think it's fine to have sex within a marriage where contracepion is used. I think it is ok to seperate the two

You are free to believe what you will. You are free to be offended. You are free to refrain from Catholic worship. You are not free to tell Catholics what they can or should believe.

I don't want to tell Catholics what to believe. I want them to stop trying (through legal means) to tell ME (and my friends and neighbors) what to believe and how to live. Get it?