No one is going to Ivies for sports culture. There are small pockets of fun, but most are unattended. There are different sources of fun which is the draw for some. So, the weather seeking sports fan are looking for different things and that’s okay.

Anonymous wrote:DC is at Penn and there couldn’t be less of a sports scene. Not sure what has happened to the Ivy League sports rivalry, but no one even goes to the Princeton FB game. They could do better to make the experience more fun, like Duke or Vandy. Even Rice FB games are fun, aren’t they? I remember how the band trolled Baylor a few years back

Rice football isn't that bad actually. They had a Bowl game this year. And they're finally renovating Rice Stadium. Like every D1 school today, the question is how much do they want to play the NIL game. Vandy and Duke are clearly all in with paying players and that's one of the reasons both football and basketball are successful programs.

Ivy League schools can't pay players, which is why Ivy sports are completely irrelevant today. No one should go to an Ivy school hoping to find a fun sports culture. It doesn't exist and it will never exist. It seems like Rice hasn't decided yet whether they want to use their wealth to compete at the highest levels in football and basketball. These kind of decisions require real choices. Stanford and Northwestern are in a similar position. NIL has changed everything. And the fallout hasn't settled yet.

Anonymous wrote:DC is at Penn and there couldn’t be less of a sports scene. Not sure what has happened to the Ivy League sports rivalry, but no one even goes to the Princeton FB game. They could do better to make the experience more fun, like Duke or Vandy. Even Rice FB games are fun, aren’t they? I remember how the band trolled Baylor a few years back

Pretty sure it’s because alcohol is not allowed in the Penn stadium.

DC is at Penn and there couldn’t be less of a sports scene. Not sure what has happened to the Ivy League sports rivalry, but no one even goes to the Princeton FB game. They could do better to make the experience more fun, like Duke or Vandy. Even Rice FB games are fun, aren’t they? I remember how the band trolled Baylor a few years back

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Anonymous wrote:crazy the shift at my DCs private in terms of priorities. Seems like a palpable shift from DCs older sister, where her friend group all wanted ivies or bust. DC friend group seems to prioritize the “experience” and a fun good weather vibe. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but Duke and Vandy out in front of every school save HYPSM in terms of interest. Vandy resurgence in football and basketball not hurting - just flipped on espn and party scene at SEC bball finals in Nashville, Vandy kids living the life according to my DC. sigh

So you don’t think Duke and Vandy offer strong academics?

Right? I would put Duke and Vandy in the same category as Ivy academics when compared to actual SEC flagship schools like Alabama (which also have their own value.) The distinction is small in the broader picture.

Dp, Duke and Vandy aren’t peers. Vandy on the same level as Wash U and Emory, Duke as Hopkins, NW, Chicago.

They are all peers, they are all peers with any of the Ivies as well. The constant attempts at granular slicing and ranking are nonsensical yet you persist.

That’s rich, I wasn’t the one who started this thread. Sorry if it makes you sad, Vandy mom, but the majority of the world doesn’t see Vandy as a peer to the Ivies or Duke. It’s still a very good school as is Wash U, Emory, Georgetown, etc . . ,

Vandy, Emory, WashU, Georgetown are peers with Cornell and Dartmouth. You can see that on Parchment..

+1, not sure if Cornell and SAT just perform poorly or the others happen to overperform, but these schools are low ivy level, including Rice in this group. But Vandy does lead the pack.

This is only half true. Agree that Parchment shows a toss up between Cornell and Vandy. But Dartmouth wins cross admits over Sandy 76 percent to 24. That strongly suggests they are not peers.

Dartmouth vs Emory is 50/50, vs Washu is 40% washu, 60% Dartmouth. So yea, Cornell and Dartmouth are the weakest ivys. It's just that Vandy and Dartmouth are very similar so it makes sense to choose Dartmouth. While Emory and WashU are niche so the choice is harder if one is alsapplyong to Dartmouth.

Dartmouth and Vandy aren't remotely similar.

They both have that wealthy Brad and Britney frat culture. Although one is SEC and the other more old money WASP. Both are also conservative.

You clearly haven't been to either campus this century.

Right? The drive to be a specialist at 17 (a pointy applicant) has made even the “fun” elite schools nerdy, quirky, and intense. Visit and you will see.

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Anonymous wrote:Other than HYP, nobody cares about the Ivies. Duke has the entire package-world class academics, fantastic sports, best campus in US, and enviable weather.

The copium is strong in this one.

Duke is distinctive if you’re looking at southern schools. Otherwise it’s painfully try-hard and not on par with HYPSM. It has a lot of special programs to try and boost its exclusivity and they are all variations on an honors college at a state university. HYPSM doesn’t need them to be elite.

Does Northwestern have slightly better academics and stronger students relative to Duke? Do the two schools have similar campus culture?

I would say NW kids are on average better academically than Duke students, but Duke's merit scholarships mean that their top 1% is probably better than NW's top 1%. So counterintuitively, it can be easier to stand out at NW if you got into both but aren't good enough for Duke's merit scholarships.

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Anonymous wrote:Vandy and Duke academics are just as good as Ivy so a no brainer.

I agree with your comments on the academics. There are many schools with undergraduate academics just as strong as the Ivies.

However, the increased interest in the Southern schools isn't happening at the expense of elite NE schools. This is easy to see because applications at top NE schools aren't dropping in any significant manner as the applications to the Southern schools goes up. and, those getting into elite NE schools are far more likely to choose them over Southern schools. It is nice to see Vandy, Rice, and Duke get the recognition that they deserve but to think that they are in any way being favored relative to top NE schools is naive.

How “top” though? MIT and Yale, you’re probably right. Tufts, Cornell and Dartmouth? I respectfully disagree.

My n of 1 sample size — my kid — picked Vandy over Columbia. They do not regret this choice and are taking advantage of the excellent academic experience AND greek life and the fun music/ bar/party culture of Nashville

I agree with this. I have two kids that made similar choices. I don't think many students are saying no to MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. But it's not a surprise that a lot of students prefer the southern alternatives to the Ivies. No one is giving up anything by choosing Duke, Vandy, or Rice over Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, or Penn. And sports and weather may very well be part of the calculation.

Why are you adding Rice? Culturally so much different than the premise of the thread.

NP how is Rice different culturally? Is it on par with Duke, Penn or Brown academically?

Penn>Rice>Duke>>Brown as far as the academic intensity of the student culture of the schools.
The dominance of Duke basketball fandom creates a different culture that Penn/Rice/Brown/other ivies do not have. It makes it hard to compare campus culture on a whole.
Duke sports culture combined with the academics/intellectual intensity makes it most similar to Northwestern.
Stanford is sporty too, but more intense than Duke, on par with most of the ivies.
Rice's location in Houston makes it completely different than most of the ivies(HPPYC): northeastern-corridor in/within an hour of NY/Phil/Boston. Houston culture is very different than the northeast. Durham is different too, but with such a large group of students from the northeast corridor, Duke does not feel as different culturally as Rice in Houston does.

Penn is more intense, but not more academic than rice. Penn's academic intensity is mostly preprofessionally directed.

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Anonymous wrote:Vandy and Duke academics are just as good as Ivy so a no brainer.

I agree with your comments on the academics. There are many schools with undergraduate academics just as strong as the Ivies.

However, the increased interest in the Southern schools isn't happening at the expense of elite NE schools. This is easy to see because applications at top NE schools aren't dropping in any significant manner as the applications to the Southern schools goes up. and, those getting into elite NE schools are far more likely to choose them over Southern schools. It is nice to see Vandy, Rice, and Duke get the recognition that they deserve but to think that they are in any way being favored relative to top NE schools is naive.

How “top” though? MIT and Yale, you’re probably right. Tufts, Cornell and Dartmouth? I respectfully disagree.

My n of 1 sample size — my kid — picked Vandy over Columbia. They do not regret this choice and are taking advantage of the excellent academic experience AND greek life and the fun music/ bar/party culture of Nashville

I agree with this. I have two kids that made similar choices. I don't think many students are saying no to MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. But it's not a surprise that a lot of students prefer the southern alternatives to the Ivies. No one is giving up anything by choosing Duke, Vandy, or Rice over Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, or Penn. And sports and weather may very well be part of the calculation.

Why are you adding Rice? Culturally so much different than the premise of the thread.

NP how is Rice different culturally? Is it on par with Duke, Penn or Brown academically?

Its not, would you send your child to Rice for business/econ over one of those schools?

I would send my kid to Rice for business/econ over Duke, Penn, and Brown if Rice was a better cultural fit.

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Anonymous wrote:Vandy and Duke academics are just as good as Ivy so a no brainer.

I agree with your comments on the academics. There are many schools with undergraduate academics just as strong as the Ivies.

However, the increased interest in the Southern schools isn't happening at the expense of elite NE schools. This is easy to see because applications at top NE schools aren't dropping in any significant manner as the applications to the Southern schools goes up. and, those getting into elite NE schools are far more likely to choose them over Southern schools. It is nice to see Vandy, Rice, and Duke get the recognition that they deserve but to think that they are in any way being favored relative to top NE schools is naive.

How “top” though? MIT and Yale, you’re probably right. Tufts, Cornell and Dartmouth? I respectfully disagree.

My n of 1 sample size — my kid — picked Vandy over Columbia. They do not regret this choice and are taking advantage of the excellent academic experience AND greek life and the fun music/ bar/party culture of Nashville

I agree with this. I have two kids that made similar choices. I don't think many students are saying no to MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. But it's not a surprise that a lot of students prefer the southern alternatives to the Ivies. No one is giving up anything by choosing Duke, Vandy, or Rice over Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, or Penn. And sports and weather may very well be part of the calculation.

Why are you adding Rice? Culturally so much different than the premise of the thread.

NP how is Rice different culturally? Is it on par with Duke, Penn or Brown academically?

It has a kind, nerdy vibe. Like a slightly less intense UChicago or MIT mixed with a bit of SLAC softness.

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Anonymous wrote:crazy the shift at my DCs private in terms of priorities. Seems like a palpable shift from DCs older sister, where her friend group all wanted ivies or bust. DC friend group seems to prioritize the “experience” and a fun good weather vibe. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but Duke and Vandy out in front of every school save HYPSM in terms of interest. Vandy resurgence in football and basketball not hurting - just flipped on espn and party scene at SEC bball finals in Nashville, Vandy kids living the life according to my DC. sigh

Would guys rather hang out with Hilary Rodham or Sophia Vergara?

A better way to put this is “would you prefer to spend time with intellect, influence, and long term growth or waste a bit of time on a depreciating asset?” Your answer says much about you and your child.

So again, your position os that there’s no “intellect” at Duke, Vandy, emory, Rice, UT? My colleagues in medicine will be anxiously awaiting your hot take

Do you think there is no fun or friendships at MIT, Yale, Stanford?

Anonymous wrote:Vandy and Duke academics are just as good as Ivy so a no brainer.

Maybe on the low end, but not at the top end. There is no math 55 or physics 16 at Vandy or Duke

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Anonymous wrote:Vandy and Duke academics are just as good as Ivy so a no brainer.

I don’t think Vandy academics are as good as an Ivy. Duke, NW, Rice, Hopkins, CalTech, Chicago, MIT, yes.

Of course you have attended all these schools to be able to make such an assertion, right? You are certainly not just going by your instincts and intuition, no? Right. I thought so.

Anonymous wrote:It's known that success in major sports drives college apps. That explains Vanderbilt completely. No need to even bring up TikTok.

DMV is a meeting ground for Northerners and Southerners.

I grew up in California and moved to MoCo in 7th grade. That was when I first ran into kids who were Duke fans. Duke still is somewhat regional. Which is not an insult. Even Harvard is.

I am not surprised that DMV kids are interested in Duke.

This is the first time I’ve heard DC described this way, but it rings very true.

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Anonymous wrote:crazy the shift at my DCs private in terms of priorities. Seems like a palpable shift from DCs older sister, where her friend group all wanted ivies or bust. DC friend group seems to prioritize the “experience” and a fun good weather vibe. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but Duke and Vandy out in front of every school save HYPSM in terms of interest. Vandy resurgence in football and basketball not hurting - just flipped on espn and party scene at SEC bball finals in Nashville, Vandy kids living the life according to my DC. sigh

So you don’t think Duke and Vandy offer strong academics?

Right? I would put Duke and Vandy in the same category as Ivy academics when compared to actual SEC flagship schools like Alabama (which also have their own value.) The distinction is small in the broader picture.

Dp, Duke and Vandy aren’t peers. Vandy on the same level as Wash U and Emory, Duke as Hopkins, NW, Chicago.

They are all peers, they are all peers with any of the Ivies as well. The constant attempts at granular slicing and ranking are nonsensical yet you persist.

That’s rich, I wasn’t the one who started this thread. Sorry if it makes you sad, Vandy mom, but the majority of the world doesn’t see Vandy as a peer to the Ivies or Duke. It’s still a very good school as is Wash U, Emory, Georgetown, etc . . ,

Vandy, Emory, WashU, Georgetown are peers with Cornell and Dartmouth. You can see that on Parchment..

+1, not sure if Cornell and SAT just perform poorly or the others happen to overperform, but these schools are low ivy level, including Rice in this group. But Vandy does lead the pack.

This is only half true. Agree that Parchment shows a toss up between Cornell and Vandy. But Dartmouth wins cross admits over Sandy 76 percent to 24. That strongly suggests they are not peers.

Dartmouth vs Emory is 50/50, vs Washu is 40% washu, 60% Dartmouth. So yea, Cornell and Dartmouth are the weakest ivys. It's just that Vandy and Dartmouth are very similar so it makes sense to choose Dartmouth. While Emory and WashU are niche so the choice is harder if one is alsapplyong to Dartmouth.

Dartmouth and Vandy aren't remotely similar.

They both have that wealthy Brad and Britney frat culture. Although one is SEC and the other more old money WASP. Both are also conservative.

You clearly haven't been to either campus this century.

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Anonymous wrote:crazy the shift at my DCs private in terms of priorities. Seems like a palpable shift from DCs older sister, where her friend group all wanted ivies or bust. DC friend group seems to prioritize the “experience” and a fun good weather vibe. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but Duke and Vandy out in front of every school save HYPSM in terms of interest. Vandy resurgence in football and basketball not hurting - just flipped on espn and party scene at SEC bball finals in Nashville, Vandy kids living the life according to my DC. sigh

So you don’t think Duke and Vandy offer strong academics?

Right? I would put Duke and Vandy in the same category as Ivy academics when compared to actual SEC flagship schools like Alabama (which also have their own value.) The distinction is small in the broader picture.

Dp, Duke and Vandy aren’t peers. Vandy on the same level as Wash U and Emory, Duke as Hopkins, NW, Chicago.

They are all peers, they are all peers with any of the Ivies as well. The constant attempts at granular slicing and ranking are nonsensical yet you persist.

That’s rich, I wasn’t the one who started this thread. Sorry if it makes you sad, Vandy mom, but the majority of the world doesn’t see Vandy as a peer to the Ivies or Duke. It’s still a very good school as is Wash U, Emory, Georgetown, etc . . ,

Vandy, Emory, WashU, Georgetown are peers with Cornell and Dartmouth. You can see that on Parchment..

+1, not sure if Cornell and SAT just perform poorly or the others happen to overperform, but these schools are low ivy level, including Rice in this group. But Vandy does lead the pack.

This is only half true. Agree that Parchment shows a toss up between Cornell and Vandy. But Dartmouth wins cross admits over Sandy 76 percent to 24. That strongly suggests they are not peers.

Dartmouth vs Emory is 50/50, vs Washu is 40% washu, 60% Dartmouth. So yea, Cornell and Dartmouth are the weakest ivys. It's just that Vandy and Dartmouth are very similar so it makes sense to choose Dartmouth. While Emory and WashU are niche so the choice is harder if one is alsapplyong to Dartmouth.

Dartmouth and Vandy aren't remotely similar.

They both have that wealthy Brad and Britney frat culture. Although one is SEC and the other more old money WASP. Both are also conservative.