Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Looks interesting but blocked by paywall.

DP. I have a gift link.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?gift=P4PbparCGiV10Ifk2hg6wpMT06p6Yg63JBaAcDlRFE0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Looks interesting but blocked by paywall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

Anonymous wrote:This article in The Atlantic is haunting (written from the parent's perspective) but also full of specifics on symptoms/outcomes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/?utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20260213&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&lctg=67e294c002b53fc1d00229ae&utm_term=The%20Atlantic%20Daily

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Please. The vaccine compensation program exists in part because it’s so difficult for injured patients to prove causation in real court. Under the current system, all you need is an injury covered by the program, and you will be paid. You don’t need to do anything to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. That’s not how it works under regular tort law, so good luck getting any money if RFK abolishes the program and you’re one of the rare people with a vaccine injury.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when are we going to get the pile of bodies we were promised?

1 to 3 in 1000 children with measles die. Try as you might, you haven't been able to infect that many yet in this outbreak. There have been some child deaths already in overall cases, though.

Just imagine how much fun you'd have if you could ensure they were all unvaccinated! Are you betting on the numbers? What's the spread?

The rate was 1 in 1000 back in 1960. You guys really should update your numbers now and then, because a lots happened in the last 65 years. We don't have pockets of malnourished children like we did then, so the disease ends up being pretty mild.

The disease remains severe. What we have now is ECMO, ventilators, a whole lot of pharma, and the ability to crack a kid’s head open so his swollen brain has somewhere to go. If you don’t mind dropping a couple of million, we can save your kid, too. No guarantees about what he’s going to be like after, though.

+1 this person is very ignorant. 11% of the people diagnosed with measles in 2025 were hospitalized, more than 1/10. Three of these people who had measles died last year! In 2025, even with modern medical care you are talking about the fatality rate was still 1/760 last year.

Makes me so angry. These are needless deaths. Brought on by repudiation of one of the most amazing things science has ever produced because a conman wants to be president.

Most deaths in this country are arguably needless, but we give people the freedom to make the decisions that lead to their deaths or the deaths of others. We let any ole idiot purchase a 5,000 pound battering ram and drive it around a city, while carrying a military inspired weapon, a couple of pit-bulls roaming around the backseat while chugging the largest slurpee they could fit in a cup-holder. All of these things are far dumber decisions than passing on the measles vaccine and they produce far more deaths.

That's before you factor in the often ignored fact that vaccines are not risk free. You really should read the package inserts of the vaccines you advocate for. Let me show you a small portion of one:
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM);
transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis;
polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia; syncope."

Hrmm, one of those looks familiar...

So how many kids do we have to give SSPE to, uh, save kids from SSPE?

You know it's more common with the viral infection than with the vaccine, right?

I do not, could you tell me what the rate is for the vaccine?

Either way thanks to the work up thread on the lethality of SSPE we can safely say the MMR vaccine is killing kids.

People are disgusted by you, and rightfully so. You are reviled.

The rate of SSPE after vaccination is roughly 0.7 to 1 per million doses, and it is thought to be connected to unrecognized pre-existing measles infection.

The risk from measles infection (without widespread vaccination, this is essentially 100%, because it is so contagious) is a rate of somewhere between 10-300 cases per million -- unless you are under 1 year old, where the rate goes up to about 1 in 600.

You are so contemptible.

So that’s 3.6 million kids a year times two doses, SSPE at .7 per million and 95% fatality rate gets roughly 5 deaths per year. Agreed?

Aren't you still arguing that complication rates are down with better nutrition (et al.), or are we still using the same standard complication rates as previously for both vaccination and infection?

I’m using whatever numbers your compatriots posted. If you have better ones, feel free to post them.

So what is the cite for the 3.8 million from, again? Just to keep it clear.

The birth cohort for recent years, and it was 3.6. You can pick other years, but the number will just increase as those cohorts were bigger.

What's the cite for the number you are using, again?

(That means your refence, not just the number.)

It is weird that you can find journal articles but are stumped by demographic data. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr038.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

This was the attitude towards vaccines until recent days. There is a gruesome calculus in that some are sacrificed for others in the hope that it all nets out.

But somewhere along the way vaccines became infallible and talk of trade offs were censored. Now many find it impossible that a vaccine could cause harm.
But if that were so, then the men who built the system wouldn’t have carved out a special court system to stonewall those harmed by vaccines.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.

You guys are arguing over a detail that is irrelevant. Even if the measles vaccine does kill 1/million people that get it. Measles is much more dangerous. Before the vaccine we had 3-4 million cases a year. So the number of deaths from measles each year was well in excess of 1,000 per year. Even if vaccine does kill 4 people a year that is much better than 1,000+ people dying from measles each year. Antivaxxers are incapable of understanding math apparently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when are we going to get the pile of bodies we were promised?

1 to 3 in 1000 children with measles die. Try as you might, you haven't been able to infect that many yet in this outbreak. There have been some child deaths already in overall cases, though.

Just imagine how much fun you'd have if you could ensure they were all unvaccinated! Are you betting on the numbers? What's the spread?

The rate was 1 in 1000 back in 1960. You guys really should update your numbers now and then, because a lots happened in the last 65 years. We don't have pockets of malnourished children like we did then, so the disease ends up being pretty mild.

The disease remains severe. What we have now is ECMO, ventilators, a whole lot of pharma, and the ability to crack a kid’s head open so his swollen brain has somewhere to go. If you don’t mind dropping a couple of million, we can save your kid, too. No guarantees about what he’s going to be like after, though.

+1 this person is very ignorant. 11% of the people diagnosed with measles in 2025 were hospitalized, more than 1/10. Three of these people who had measles died last year! In 2025, even with modern medical care you are talking about the fatality rate was still 1/760 last year.

Makes me so angry. These are needless deaths. Brought on by repudiation of one of the most amazing things science has ever produced because a conman wants to be president.

Most deaths in this country are arguably needless, but we give people the freedom to make the decisions that lead to their deaths or the deaths of others. We let any ole idiot purchase a 5,000 pound battering ram and drive it around a city, while carrying a military inspired weapon, a couple of pit-bulls roaming around the backseat while chugging the largest slurpee they could fit in a cup-holder. All of these things are far dumber decisions than passing on the measles vaccine and they produce far more deaths.

That's before you factor in the often ignored fact that vaccines are not risk free. You really should read the package inserts of the vaccines you advocate for. Let me show you a small portion of one:
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM);
transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis;
polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia; syncope."

Hrmm, one of those looks familiar...

So how many kids do we have to give SSPE to, uh, save kids from SSPE?

You know it's more common with the viral infection than with the vaccine, right?

I do not, could you tell me what the rate is for the vaccine?

Either way thanks to the work up thread on the lethality of SSPE we can safely say the MMR vaccine is killing kids.

People are disgusted by you, and rightfully so. You are reviled.

The rate of SSPE after vaccination is roughly 0.7 to 1 per million doses, and it is thought to be connected to unrecognized pre-existing measles infection.

The risk from measles infection (without widespread vaccination, this is essentially 100%, because it is so contagious) is a rate of somewhere between 10-300 cases per million -- unless you are under 1 year old, where the rate goes up to about 1 in 600.

You are so contemptible.

So that’s 3.6 million kids a year times two doses, SSPE at .7 per million and 95% fatality rate gets roughly 5 deaths per year. Agreed?

Aren't you still arguing that complication rates are down with better nutrition (et al.), or are we still using the same standard complication rates as previously for both vaccination and infection?

I’m using whatever numbers your compatriots posted. If you have better ones, feel free to post them.

So what is the cite for the 3.8 million from, again? Just to keep it clear.

The birth cohort for recent years, and it was 3.6. You can pick other years, but the number will just increase as those cohorts were bigger.

What's the cite for the number you are using, again?

(That means your refence, not just the number.)

Anonymous wrote:
PPS: More specifically, SSPE is a sequelae of infection with a strain of measles virus that contains the PEA motif (residues P64, E89, and especially A209) in the matrix protein. 9 out of the 10 gene sequenced wild-type measles virus strains contain that PEA motif, but the vaccine strains do not. The vaccine strains have an SKT motif (S64, K89, T209) instead.

Measles viruses with the SKT motif have never been isolated in cases of SSPE, and neither has the one wild-type strain which does not have the PEA motif
(i.e., genotype B3 with PET).

So I'm not likely to concede that you are going to be killing a certain number of children a year via SSPE by giving them the measles vaccine. I would, however, like to be accurate in the predictions of how many would be likely to die from complications of measles infection, and for that I would first look at your reference for the number you gave.