Yes, of course, which is why we sent our son to oxford. AMA

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Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

The Bay Area has a very large number of immigrants who are very attracted to the top UC schools and are very vocally against anything except gpa/test score for admissions. They feel very put out by the UC admissions process.

And most importantly, who the F are you reporting on "they" and "their" preferences?

I am someone who knows what the F they are talking about because I am someone who lives in their world and interacts with large numbers of families from schools like Lynnbrook, Cupertino, Homestead, Monte Vista, etc. constantly. I work in the tech community and have an additional activity which is closely aligned to the college admissions process along a specific vector. I also have a mixed race family and many close connections within the community.

If by European-style admissions you mean admissions based entirely on test scores and grades, we already have that in most public colleges. Top, especially private, U.S. colleges ask for more to differentiate more - and that makes sense to me.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

+1 The real issue with US based college admissions is the amount of $$$ parents shell out for college counselors.

Prepping for the SATs is not an issue. You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library. Lots of schools offer free SAT practice times.

But most people cannot afford the price tag for college counselors or help with essays.

So the test prep you can afford is fine but the college counselors you can’t are horrible.

I think you need some reading comprehension tutoring.

You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library

, ie, FREE

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

The Bay Area has a very large number of immigrants who are very attracted to the top UC schools and are very vocally against anything except gpa/test score for admissions. They feel very put out by the UC admissions process.

And most importantly, who the F are you reporting on "they" and "their" preferences?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

The Bay Area has a very large number of immigrants who are very attracted to the top UC schools and are very vocally against anything except gpa/test score for admissions. They feel very put out by the UC admissions process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

Is there a difference between SoCal Asians and Bay Area Asians that I'm not aware of?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

The UCs basically have a giant set of ostensibly race blind parameters which they tweak to get a metric that maximally penalizes Asian students. That's not the UK does

That is factually incorrect, the metric penalizes high SES kids from schools with concentrations of high performing students of any race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.

Except that nowadays they need to be locked into a “narrative” from the age of 14 to get into one of these elite colleges. If you think teens should have the freedom to explore their interests you should hate everything about the current American admissions process.

Or maybe just stop obsessing about roughly 40 universities and SLACs and attend one of the many other exceptional schools available in the US?

I'm sure rich people with mediocre kids would love that. But the whole point of the thread is to discuss potential changes to the admissions processes at these schools.

The title of the thread is "Would you prefer European-style admissions?" not "Would you prefer European-style admissions? at elite American schools which unlike their European counterparts are Private Institutions"

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Anonymous wrote:I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

+1 The real issue with US based college admissions is the amount of $$$ parents shell out for college counselors.

Prepping for the SATs is not an issue. You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library. Lots of schools offer free SAT practice times.

But most people cannot afford the price tag for college counselors or help with essays.

So the test prep you can afford is fine but the college counselors you can’t are horrible.

California is 17% Asian I believe with all the Asian groups well represented.

UK is almost all South Asian ie roots in the Indian Subcontinent. Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are not Southeast Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

The UCs basically have a giant set of ostensibly race blind parameters which they tweak to get a metric that maximally penalizes Asian students. That's not the UK does

There is literally no comparison. California has a 10% Asian population (Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese, Singaporean, etc etc)

In the UK there's nearly a 10% South East Asian population (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan) but only 500k Chinese people in the entire country.

So, not comparable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

The DEI that they use is mostly by income and location. IMO, that's fine. Also, UK schools mostly look at your test scores. They don't really care that much about your extra curriculars, so their students aren't

That is the type of DEI practiced by the UCs in California which cause howling by Asian families here on DCUM.

I don't think most Asian Americans, especially immigrants are against SES based diversity given that there are actually a fair amount of low income Asian families in CA.

-signed an Asian American originally from SoCal

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/27/key-facts-about-asian-americans-living-in-poverty/

I think that is great but the Bay Area Asian community has a very different view of things.

PP here.. Interesting you say that. I lived in both Socal and the Bay Area. Most people, including Asian Americans, recognize that lower income students need a boost. It's the race based affirmative action that they disagree with. Asian Americans as a whole may have higher income than most due to them largely being in the STEM field, but many are children of immigrants who were once lower income.

I will say that those Asian Americans who are recent immigrants and are educated are the ones who probably don't even want SES diversity. These folks have little sympathy for lower income people. IMO, these are the folks who are Trump voters. He also has little sympathy for poor people.

Anonymous wrote:I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.

+1 The real issue with US based college admissions is the amount of $$$ parents shell out for college counselors.

Prepping for the SATs is not an issue. You can find prep books/videos/sample tests online and in the library. Lots of schools offer free SAT practice times.

But most people cannot afford the price tag for college counselors or help with essays.

I would prefer it to a student application propped up by a team of adults in the form of parents/counselors/coaches concocting interests and experiences. So many applications seem in reality a review of a team of adults surrounding the student.