Anonymous wrote:Wow. If this is the stuff you get worked up about, they should just call you b—-ch instead.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Gen X male here: I’ve discovered (through years of careful observation and evaluation) that I get appreciably better service in places like restaurants, stores, car rental and airline counters, and other such service-oriented places, if in my interactions with female staff, I call them “darlin’ “ or “ma’am”, and smile a lot. Appreciably better service. Not just a little better.

LOL, if you call my Mom that, your tip is going to be WILDLY affected. And not in a good way

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

I'm not advocating for anything one way or another. Just asking what are the "acceptable" references so as not to set anyone off.

i have gone my whole life without using those terms.

You walk into a room and say "good afternoon, how are you?" instead of "good afternoon, sweetie. How are you?"

It is THAT simple.

So we've gotten to a point in humanity where we can't attempt to relate and/or appreciate anyone and need to just go completely impersonal in every interaction so as not to inadvertently offend anyone? Got it.

You are not relating or appreciating anyone by calling them sweetie, sweetie? See how that sounds?

You sound like a condescending, uneducated hick. You're welcome.

Context and intent matter. If you're not smart enough to understand that, it's not worth have an educated conversation with you because you're incapable.

No one, and I mean no one in the professional setting needs to use those words. But nice try at deflection with the "context" nonsense. No one is losing their shit over a weitreess calling them sweetie (but even then, I'm rolling my eyes because even she can do better).

Where in this thread does *anyone* mention a "professional setting"?

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.

Have you addressed your preference with this "person in power"? What was their response? Did they continue calling you sweetie?

I have addressed it a few times. In all of the instances, they stopped calling me dumb names. I have a name and it's not sweetie.

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Anonymous wrote:I suppose the male equivalent is being called dude.

Most people in this country are working class to lower middle class, not uptight professionals. I agree context matters a lot, but the people upset at the Stetson poster calling attendants darling or ma'am really don't realize how much of it comes down to delivery and charm and why he gets away with it. I've seen it in action and the recipient is always charmed and usually giggles a bit.

It’s equivalent to calling a “little guy”

What can I get you little guys to drink.

Or sport, champ, or buddy.

Hey buddy, are you ready to order. Nice choice champ.

Most of the people who use "sweetie", "hun", or "dear" use them indiscriminately on people of both genders. Like the vast majority of people saying this stuff are older women in service jobs (often black women) and they will 100% sweetie my husband the same way they do me. So that should tell you right there what the intent is.

But also, even in a situation where we will assume you are right, and they only do this to women and it is in fact diminishing... these are women with very low status. Often older women. They aren't doing it to attack you, personally. They are doing it because they were raised in a culture where you defer to men and you baby women. It's social conditioning, not a personal attack.

In the tiny number of situations where the person who says this to you is actually high status, you are free to read them the riot act. Getting mad at waitresses and ladies working retail sales over this is crazy.

This is the stuff of "irrational, emotional" stereotypes of women. If someone "read me the riot act" because I grew up in the midwest where this was common, I would think they were psychotic.

You too can change now that you know better. It is extremely condescending and patronizing to call grown women (and men) sweetie, honey, darling, etc.

NP. OR....... you can change your opinion! I see nothing wrong with it. I may not do it myself, but I'm certainly not offended, nor do I find it "condescending and patronizing" to refer to grown women and men this way.

Bless your little heart.

I never do this because the way it's thrown around on DCUM makes it lose all meaning. But if you use this terminology, you are low class and everyone other than you knows it.

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.

It's actually not. Who made them right and me wrong?

The fact that they find it offensive makes it wrong. The fact that you keep insisting on doing this when you know others find it offensive is what makes you wrong. If you can't express yourself without using these dumb names, you have failed at life.

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.

Have you addressed your preference with this "person in power"? What was their response? Did they continue calling you sweetie?

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.

It's actually not. Who made them right and me wrong?

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Anonymous wrote:I suppose the male equivalent is being called dude.

Most people in this country are working class to lower middle class, not uptight professionals. I agree context matters a lot, but the people upset at the Stetson poster calling attendants darling or ma'am really don't realize how much of it comes down to delivery and charm and why he gets away with it. I've seen it in action and the recipient is always charmed and usually giggles a bit.

It’s equivalent to calling a “little guy”

What can I get you little guys to drink.

Or sport, champ, or buddy.

Hey buddy, are you ready to order. Nice choice champ.

Most of the people who use "sweetie", "hun", or "dear" use them indiscriminately on people of both genders. Like the vast majority of people saying this stuff are older women in service jobs (often black women) and they will 100% sweetie my husband the same way they do me. So that should tell you right there what the intent is.

But also, even in a situation where we will assume you are right, and they only do this to women and it is in fact diminishing... these are women with very low status. Often older women. They aren't doing it to attack you, personally. They are doing it because they were raised in a culture where you defer to men and you baby women. It's social conditioning, not a personal attack.

In the tiny number of situations where the person who says this to you is actually high status, you are free to read them the riot act. Getting mad at waitresses and ladies working retail sales over this is crazy.

This is the stuff of "irrational, emotional" stereotypes of women. If someone "read me the riot act" because I grew up in the midwest where this was common, I would think they were psychotic.

You too can change now that you know better. It is extremely condescending and patronizing to call grown women (and men) sweetie, honey, darling, etc.

NP. OR....... you can change your opinion! I see nothing wrong with it. I may not do it myself, but I'm certainly not offended, nor do I find it "condescending and patronizing" to refer to grown women and men this way.

Bless your little heart.

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

My dear, not everyone have manners, calm down. They don't need to adjust their life habbits or stop them for any reason. They may not need to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, but if they want to, they can and they will.

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.

PP here.

First of all, I never use these words. I am defending people who do, or suggesting it is not worth it to get upset about them. The fact that you feel comfortable calling me stupid yet didn't understand this says a lot about you.

Second, one thing I consider when I communicate is how my background and that of the other person might differ. If the person I'm talking to is much older or younger, from a part of the world with a different culture, or may have other major differences in outlook, I bake that into our communications. I would be offended if a man I work with who has a similar background to me called me "sweetie." But if a woman I work with who is 30 years my senior and from Alabama did, I probably wouldn't care. Because I would assume the man should understand the negative connotations especially of a man calling a female peer a name like that, but that the older woman might not get that, especially if she comes from a place where everyone (man or woman, old or young) uses those terms.

So no, it's not always about a person in a position of power using this word against you. Sometimes, often actually, it's a person with less power and less social status, using these words because they've been conditioned to soften and feminize their speech to make it more palatable. I am smart enough to understand this nuance, and privileged enough to not get all injured when someone uses a word that I personally wouldn't use. It is VERY different than someone using the n-word or r-word, which are universally known to be offensive. A better comparison to those words would be someone calling someone at work a b-word or c-word, which I would agree is ALWAYS unacceptable.

I have now officially spent more time explaining basic human interactions to you than you deserve, but go ahead and call me stupid again, SWEETIE.

I once had a coworker call me "child" in the workplace. I was in my 30s. I didn't say anything at the time but I felt it was wildly inappropriate.

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

I'm not advocating for anything one way or another. Just asking what are the "acceptable" references so as not to set anyone off.

i have gone my whole life without using those terms.

You walk into a room and say "good afternoon, how are you?" instead of "good afternoon, sweetie. How are you?"

It is THAT simple.

So we've gotten to a point in humanity where we can't attempt to relate and/or appreciate anyone and need to just go completely impersonal in every interaction so as not to inadvertently offend anyone? Got it.

You are not relating or appreciating anyone by calling them sweetie, sweetie? See how that sounds?

You sound like a condescending, uneducated hick. You're welcome.

Context and intent matter. If you're not smart enough to understand that, it's not worth have an educated conversation with you because you're incapable.

No one, and I mean no one in the professional setting needs to use those words. But nice try at deflection with the "context" nonsense. No one is losing their shit over a weitreess calling them sweetie (but even then, I'm rolling my eyes because even she can do better).

Anonymous wrote:Some of you have no nuance.

I have known drag queens, flamboyant gay men, and very effusive and charming older women who call everyone "doll" and no one is ever offended. Also "beautiful". Even though if my male boss used those to describe me at work I'd report him to HR. So it's extremely context dependent.

Women over 60 I give wide latitude towards. My mom calls a lot of people sweetie and dear. She's 75. There actually is a sexist element because she's more likely to say it to kids or women, but not men. However she is also more likely to use them with people she really likes. So it's complicated. I'm not going to go correcting a 75 year old woman who has been through a lot on something like this. Whatever.

Southerners do this and it's cultural. How mad do you want to get? I honestly think some southerners cannot stop doing it. They've heard people talking this way since they were born.

People who work in customer facing jobs, especially if working for tips, probably do this to try and ingratiate themselves. If it offends you, I guess that sucks for them. But I really don't think they are doing it to offend -- they think people like it. And the truth is, a lot of people DO like it and maybe talking this way increases your tip and makes you seem friendlier and more welcoming, in which case it is just logical that they would ignore the probably less than 5% of people who might be offended. They are just trying to make a living.

Getting mad about these terms as a general rule seems silly to me because it's obviously more complicated than just deciding everyone who speaks this way is a raging misogynist who is out to get you.

You sound like you are reading a lot into and getting very invested in people simply having a preference as to how they are addressed. I don't like being called hon or doll or darlin. When it's come from a man, it always made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't think about it as them being "a raging misogynist" - I just didn't like it. From an older woman it usually doesn't bother me, but if asked I would say I would prefer they not use any of those terms. Of course, I can't control how strangers address me, but since this topic was brought up here, a I'm not afraid to say I don't care for it. Why do my preferences bother you so much?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:IRL, what are people supposed to refer to you as if they don't know you (and your name)? Miss? Won't some people get offended if we're assuming genders at this point? It's gotten so ridiculous at this point what people are uptight about and it seems like many are just sitting around waiting to be offended....

It's not rocket science. People who have manners never use those terms to talk to women. No one NEEDS to refer to anyone as dear, sweetie, etc. It's a habit you developed and you can stop anytime.

Taking offense at every little thing is also a habit you developed and can stop at any time.

The vast majority of people who use these terms at this point are women who were socialized into it by the expectation that they be friendly and motherly to people even in professional settings.

Stop saying offensive things and people won't be....offended. I can't believe I have to spell this out for grown-ups. Are you really THiS STUPID?

I'm the PP and I'm not stupid, but now I'm getting why you are having a hard time with this.

You can't use an ounce of empathy to understand that MANY people who say this stuff do not consider it offensive, it's what they call everyone, and they were raised to speak this way? A waitress calling you hon or sweetie is not out to get you. That's just how she talks. If you are so much better and more sophisticated than she is, then surely you can have the good manners and patience to let it go, rather than call her stupid, which is inarguably ruder than calling someone "sweetie."

It is not about what you consider offensive. It's about people you call these names consider offensive. So you ARE that stupid. Plenty of people using the R word or the N word think it's totally fine, yet all the decent people know how offensive and wrong it is. It is also not about a waitress calling me sweetie. It's about a person in power calling me sweetie. So, sounds like you haven't learned how to communicate in addition to not learning any manners.