Move

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say you probably won't find that lady at a Ren Faire.
Or your local Unitarian church

This. Your local extremely progressive LGBT friendly protestant church is probably a good place to start, in addition to Unitarian.

Ren Fair and possibly craft / art groups. Maybe even very specifc nerd interest groups: Dungeons and Dragons? An astronomy meetup?

Stay far away from general book clubs and neighborhood groups and anything that is just social event based (wine tastings etc..)

Anything that's seen as a "yucky" nerd hobbb by "successful" type A's. I'm looking for this as well OP.

Churches of all kinds have a few power hungry members and bitter in fighting and guilt over how much you donate. UUs are largely wealthy but like to pretend they're not and some of them can be very judgemental. There are a lot of great people, but serving on a committee can be difficult.

Anonymous wrote:I'd say you probably won't find that lady at a Ren Faire.
Or your local Unitarian church

This. Your local extremely progressive LGBT friendly protestant church is probably a good place to start, in addition to Unitarian.

Ren Fair and possibly craft / art groups. Maybe even very specifc nerd interest groups: Dungeons and Dragons? An astronomy meetup?

Stay far away from general book clubs and neighborhood groups and anything that is just social event based (wine tastings etc..)

Anything that's seen as a "yucky" nerd hobbb by "successful" type A's. I'm looking for this as well OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

OP here. We are not "kind of" middle class. We are middle class. We own a tiny home we bought for under 500k when rates were really low and cannot afford to fix it up or to move. We have extremely normal jobs with no power or prestige. Public schools, modest backgrounds. I work in a field with a lot of jobs in the DC area due to the federal government and all the universities, which is how we wound up here, but it's not a glamorous field at all.

My perception is that a lot of the people I encounter like this only make slightly more than we do, but either have a spouse making a lot or have money from family. We don't live in NW DC or one of the pricy suburbs. I assume this issue is even worse in those communities, but I'll never find out because we could never afford to live there, nor will we ever send our kids to any of these elite privates (or any private school) or get them involved in any super expensive EC. But even in our very middle class existence, I encounter people like this a lot.

It must be you. I posted upthread and live in CCDC and haven't encountered this dynamic in any friendships or relationships.

It’s not just your neighbors though. It’s also professional and activity driven. For example, I meet this type of woman preparing for her triathlon as she trains at Wilson pool.

IDK. I guess I'm not bothered by someone training for a triathalon. I'm not sure how this impacts me in any way.

Here let me help. The impact starts when she starts engaging you. In the lane, telling you where you are permitted to swim and not swim. In the locker room. In the checkin line.

Whether i can handle this situation is immaterial. The point is that they exist, sorted by zip code, profession, activity, and more

I just don't routinely encounter this. Women telling me what to do. I notice this with men more often, not with women. If some man or woman told me I was in the "wrong" line, I'd move if I was, in fact, in the wrong line, or brush it off if I was in the correct line "Actually, this is correct."

I'm also not into stereotyping zip codes, professions, activities, etc because I just think there are @ssholes of all stripes, but I try not to let it ruin my day.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know anyone like this. Maybe because I’m a minority and they avoid me? Yay.

of course, because all the white people are racist. yawn.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know anyone like this. Maybe because I’m a minority and they avoid me? Yay.

Maybe. It's also possible you do know people like this but just don't notice and thus it doesn't impact you. Which would be a real, not snarky, reason for yay.

I think sometimes this behavior annoys me more than it should specifically because I pick up on it very easily. I think the reason why is I grew up in a very dysfunctional family with bad power dynamics (one abusive parent, one enabling parent, lots of sibling rivalry, lots of pitting kids against each other by parents, parentification of older sibling, neglect of younger siblings, parentification of female children, enabling of male children, etc.). Obviously this was bad and as an adult I've gone to lots of therapy to untangle that and figure out how it impacted me and learn to recognize negative power dynamics in relationships.

One side effect of this is that I notice power dynamics, abusive behaviors (not physical abuse, which almost anyone will recognize, but the way people manipulate relationships to their advantage and the other person's disadvantage), controlling behavior, enabling behavior, etc. And once you see this stuff, you cannot unsee it. So people like this probably bother me, or "trigger" me, more than they would someone who just grew up with health family dynamics or hasn't dealt with emotional abuse or been on the losing end of a really bad power dynamic. You may just gloss over all this and just think "huh the one lady has a really strong personality" or "huh those two ladies are friends even though one of them always seems happy and the other always looks kind of unhappy." Whereas I will think "oh, that woman is using the guilt of implied obligation to force people around her to give more money to the PTA than they are comfortable with, and a lot of people do it because they are afraid of her or afraid of being perceived as cheap or gossiped about as having not give as much as others." Or "oh Mary is forcing that friendship on Carla because Mary wants their kids to be best friends but Carla doesn't know how to say no because Mary is very vindictive when she feels slighted and Carla is worried about making an enemy of her."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

A friend was sick of this and moved to a rural area where she is comparatively rich and now she's turning into this! PTA president, sports booster, her kids are popular now. All the events are at her house because she has by far the nicest house and all the women want to be friends with her. It's crazy what status can do because she was a nobody like me before.

This is not what OP is talking about. Not every PTA/sports/ entertainer mom is obnoxious. Some people are genuinely nice and more available than others.

I know a mom who has been hosting/leading from preschool through elementary. She is a sweetheart and not obnoxious at all. She just happens to have more free time as a stay at home parent and enjoys doing these things. She is very helpful.

Anonymous wrote:No advice, but I'm depressingly here to tell you that geography is not always the solution you think it is.

I am on a text thread that includes a woman who moved out of the area -- to a different time zone, even -- TWO YEARS AGO. And yet, this text thread is STILL full of her giving the rest of us local advice -- to drive carefully because snow is predicted or there's a rally downtown that's closing streets; a new restaurant we have to try; the highlights from someone's kid's latest high school game we have to watch; etc.

At this point, nobody responds. We're all just cheerfully grey rocking her with the occasional thumbs-up or "thx!"

Geography is definitely not the solution. There are anxious, insecure Type A people everywhere.

Anonymous wrote:No advice, but I'm depressingly here to tell you that geography is not always the solution you think it is.

I am on a text thread that includes a woman who moved out of the area -- to a different time zone, even -- TWO YEARS AGO. And yet, this text thread is STILL full of her giving the rest of us local advice -- to drive carefully because snow is predicted or there's a rally downtown that's closing streets; a new restaurant we have to try; the highlights from someone's kid's latest high school game we have to watch; etc.

At this point, nobody responds. We're all just cheerfully grey rocking her with the occasional thumbs-up or "thx!"

I have an acquaintance like this and everyone who knows her has gotten really fed up with her constant "advising" plus she's been called out socially on a couple of occasions including by someone who she *really* crossed a boundary with, so she's actually toned it down a lot. Not totally, but she's learned to only do this advising/guiding/controlling thing with a handful of women who have basically assigned themselves the role of her acolytes.

However, I follow her on social media and she just channels all her "I'm the expert" behavior there. She used to do it a lot on Twitter and then Twitter got stupid so now she does it on Threads. It's hilarious to me. She just really, really needs to be in a position to tell people what to do with their lives. I do worry for her kids, though. That's going to get tough eventually.

No advice, but I'm depressingly here to tell you that geography is not always the solution you think it is.

I am on a text thread that includes a woman who moved out of the area -- to a different time zone, even -- TWO YEARS AGO. And yet, this text thread is STILL full of her giving the rest of us local advice -- to drive carefully because snow is predicted or there's a rally downtown that's closing streets; a new restaurant we have to try; the highlights from someone's kid's latest high school game we have to watch; etc.

At this point, nobody responds. We're all just cheerfully grey rocking her with the occasional thumbs-up or "thx!"

Anonymous wrote:I think these are narcissists who get their “supply” from people they can manipulate. Every person they meet is sized up in the first five minutes based on how rich they are, how smart, how physically attractive, and how much use they can be used to their advantage.

I actually don’t know that intelligence gets assessed (or is valued) quite as much for younger moms, but generally I agree.

And this is why I kinda sorta agree w the PP who suggested that OP could try moving down a few rungs of the socioeconomic ladder, but I wonder if that would come with other frustrations for someone as keenly aware as OP is.

I think the person who suggested volunteering in non-glamorous capacities was into something (sorting used clothing donations vs serving on the gala committee), except in my experience, those types of positions are overwhelmingly filled with senior women who do not see much younger women as candidates for friendship. But I agree with the general advice to “go uglier”, (similar to the other person who suggested to “go poorer”) bc the values will necessarily be different.

Tough if you are a visual person and appreciate beautiful surroundings though

I don’t know anyone like this. Maybe because I’m a minority and they avoid me? Yay.

Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

A friend was sick of this and moved to a rural area where she is comparatively rich and now she's turning into this! PTA president, sports booster, her kids are popular now. All the events are at her house because she has by far the nicest house and all the women want to be friends with her. It's crazy what status can do because she was a nobody like me before.

Are you in Falls Church City?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, the competitive DC sanctimommy. Always first to kiss an ass if there are social points involved, will humblebrag you to death, and frequently "helpful" in ways that are nothing but condescending twattery.

How to avoid: Go somewhere volunteers are expected to perform a meaningful service, not just show off. The PTA is obviously out (PTAs are known mommymartyr showcases). Try sorting clothes at A Wider Circle or serving food at SOME (So Others Might Eat). Don't go anywhere the volunteers are there to specifically help those in leadership/power positions (again, think of the PTA and whose asses are getting kissed). Avoid anywhere that's a photo op, or somewhere volunteers get recognition beyond a simple "thank you".

But honestly? In this area, they're hard to avoid. Your best bet is to learn to ignore, but reserve an ice-cold burn or cut for when they pipe off. Understand that they're going to talk about you anyway and be willing to weaponize it. Calling them out just calls in their flying monkeys. You have to 'bless your heart' them, excessively, in public, in a way that points out what fake-ass nonsense they are full of. Do it right, and they'll start kissing YOUR ass, just to shut you up.

I don't know how to avoid them but I know how to get them to avoid me. I am on the autistic spectrum and spent the first five years of my son's life living abroad in the developing world with him, so I pulled into Vienna Va. with a little kid dressed in thrifted clothes who had never had a private swimming lesson, joined a competitive chess team, participated in mommy and me kiddie gymnastics etc. I proceeded to put my foot in my mouth at every possible opportunity. The first was when I admitted I had literally never heard of Virginia Tech, I confused special education and gifted classes, when someone was humble bragging about the special travel soccer team their kid was on, I was so clueless that I thought "He's playing on the Nationals" meant the kid was like nationally ranked or something. There's nothing quite like reacting in the wrong way and reacting in such a bizarre way that they literally have no response I highly recommend it.

Nothing highlights someone else's fakeness by being real af. I love it!