Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

Poor people think their daily Starbucks habits don’t add up, but they do. Dh and I come from frugal, well off families. We all have always paid cash for cars and never carried debt. Car loans aren’t worth it.

The whole “lattes and avocado toast is preventing you from owning a house” trope has been thoroughly debunked.

Debunked by who? Millennials?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

Poor people think their daily Starbucks habits don’t add up, but they do. Dh and I come from frugal, well off families. We all have always paid cash for cars and never carried debt. Car loans aren’t worth it.

The whole “lattes and avocado toast is preventing you from owning a house” trope has been thoroughly debunked.

Anonymous wrote:Agree with those who say make more money. I don’t spend frivolously but I don’t say no if my kids want takeout or a new toy from Amazon. So 🤷🏼‍♀️.

I mean, I don’t have a fancy car but even upkeep for a regular Japanese suburban SUV is expensive.

And this is after maxing out retirement in 529. And putting money in investment accounts.

Oh, and I’m a single parent who is the breadwinner so I imagine dual income households where the earner has a background like mine have even more money to spend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

Poor people think their daily Starbucks habits don’t add up, but they do. Dh and I come from frugal, well off families. We all have always paid cash for cars and never carried debt. Car loans aren’t worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.