Anonymous wrote:I like ATS except not as a public school. As a taxpayer I will pay for public kids doing STEM (TJ), language (Immersion) or Montessori (MPSA) because they are distinct and identifiable pedagogies. Not ATS. I respect parents who want that but that is private.

This doesn't make sense. ATS, Immersion and Montessori are all lottery?! In that case all lottery schools should be rmeoved from the public school system then not just some.

Anonymous wrote:I like ATS except not as a public school. As a taxpayer I will pay for public kids doing STEM (TJ), language (Immersion) or Montessori (MPSA) because they are distinct and identifiable pedagogies. Not ATS. I respect parents who want that but that is private.

But ATS' pedagogy is a traditional pre-1960s approach that eschew's the latest educational fads as they come and go like open classrooms, or relaxed dress codes, no homework, etc. There will probably always be a demand for that, and APS is meeting that demand. As long as the school produces results, APS will not get rid of it.

On a related note, that's why HB is one of the few schools of its kind still in operation in the U.S. after similar experiments were shut down by other districts in the 1980s. The educational outcomes are still strong.

I like ATS except not as a public school. As a taxpayer I will pay for public kids doing STEM (TJ), language (Immersion) or Montessori (MPSA) because they are distinct and identifiable pedagogies. Not ATS. I respect parents who want that but that is private.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

It’s almost like ATS should be the norm and niche schools designed solely for children of the upper middle class should become the option schools.

+1. We could name that niche option school "Snowflake ES" and maybe put it in N Arlington....

I think homework can be beneficial for some kids, while others may not need it as much. Every child learns differently, and a one-size-fits-all approach doesn't always work.

For my child, I really wish they were at ATS, because they need the extra reinforcement of what’s covered in class. My oldest didn’t have regular homework until 5th grade, and they really struggled in middle school when it suddenly became an expectation.

Studies can say one thing or another, but at the end of the day, I have to go by what works for my child. I truly believe my youngest would thrive in that kind of environment, but unfortunately, we didn’t get in. So instead, we’ve had to assign our own homework and also work with a tutor to help provide the support they need.

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Anonymous wrote:Whenever I see these posts it makes me annoyed my kids don’t get in to ATS. I want them to go to school with other kids who have parents that want to be there. Haha oh well! We are living the dream at our neighborhood school toying with going private weekly.

The ATS model can be replicated. The thing is parents don’t want it to be replicated. They don’t want a school where there are high academic and behavioral expectations (there is very little bullying at ATS by the way and when it happens it is nipped in the bud). They don’t want a school that gives homework. That’s the problem. Despite all the parents who want more schools like ATS, the loudest voices are like the ones you see here on DCUM who hate on ATS every chance they get.

It’s a particular group of parents—a lot of first gen/immigrant families who highly value education, homework, testing that want the things you describe at ATS. The issue is that those same values do not translate at, for example, Taylor, Jamestown, Nottingham, Cardinal.

I don’t want my kid to have repetitive worksheet homework in elementary school. They don’t add any value to my child’s educational experience and there is good reason evidence that elementary school homework isn’t helpful to kids like mind. I acknowledge that it may also be true homework is helpful to a different population.

So, you don’t have a swell of support for the ATS vision, because the things you find useful at ATS don’t translate across all schools in Arlington.

So your kids don’t go to ATS yet you somehow assume that ATS is giving them repetitive worksheets? This is the problem. Parents who don’t have kids in ATS but make assumptions of what it’s like. My kids love ATS. It’s not a boring cold school. The teachers are excellent and know how to make he material interesting. They learn but have fun at the same time.

The very definition of home work is to repeat what is leaned ar home. See prior up thread. Tons of research showing that, for kids like mine, elementary home work is a waste of time. It’s ok that different tools works for different kids.

And to be clear, look at the breakdown of ATS kids. You aren’t drawing at all from the neighborhoods I am referencing. Again, this is not to say that ATS is bad or a worse education. It’s an explanation for why ATS isn’t county wide. We don’t want it. And you don’t want what my ES offers.

The calculation is vastly different in poorer South Arlington ES. All can be true.

DP. Please cite 1 refereed article that says that homework is a waste of time for kids like yours. I have access to a good university library that can get anything in the refereed literature.

https://assess.ucr.edu/sites/default/files/2019-02/cooperrobinsonpatall_2006.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

“ In this article, research conducted in the United States since 1987 on the effects
of homework is summarized. Studies are grouped into four research designs. The
authors found that all studies, regardless of type, had design flaws. However,
both within and across design types, there was generally consistent evidence for
a positive influence of homework on achievement. Studies that reported sim-
ple homework–achievement correlations revealed evidence that a stronger
correlation existed (a) in Grades 7–12 than in K–6 and (b) when students rather
than parents reported time on homework. No strong evidence was found for an
association between the homework–achievement link and the outcome measure
(grades as opposed to standardized tests) or the subject matter (reading as
opposed to math). On the basis of these results and others, the authors suggest
future research.”

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

Exactly.
Politicians and elected school board members won't say it...but much of a child's educational attainment relies on parents demanding high academic performance from their kids.
Schools can only do so much.

In many well-off parts of Arlington sports take precedence over high academic performance. So I don't see the widespread adoption of ATS' pedagogy. On the other hand, a large number of immigrant families in the county, including the large Mongolian community, tend to prioritize high academic performance over everything else.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

Exactly.
Politicians and elected school board members won't say it...but much of a child's educational attainment relies on parents demanding high academic performance from their kids.
Schools can only do so much.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

It’s almost like ATS should be the norm and niche schools designed solely for children of the upper middle class should become the option schools.

Like MPSA and Immersion.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

It’s almost like ATS should be the norm and niche schools designed solely for children of the upper middle class should become the option schools.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

Old fogies used to call this “school” but now we have to get buy-in.

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Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

Would like to know where these stats are posted or provided at least the local example you provided.

https://wakefield.apsva.us/spanish-immersion/

“ 2014-2015 & 2015-2016, 2016-2017 100% Spanish Immersion Students passed the Biology SOL test”

I think overall the pass rate is around 85%, but I’m having trouble finding the number right now.

There’s a lot that has changed since 2017 let alone from 2014 or earlier. I’m not sure I would assume this is still the case today.

You’re right that a lot has changed for everyone post Covid. But I know the biology SOL/immersion thing was still true a year or two ago (might not be 100% now, but immersion kids scoring higher) from talking to the teachers. I don’t know about other stats.

It's probably a little unfair to make the comparison as a kid who is struggling to pass SOLs would probably drop immersion to focus on passing, but it's still good to see immersion students doing so well.

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Anonymous wrote:These ratings systems got crap when it was all about test scores, which are typically a proxy for income level. Now they factor in diversity. So an all white school with the same test scores won’t rank as high.

ATS is able to produce high scores with diverse students because it’s a self selecting population of students.

Why are some of the other self selecting schools not higher like Claremont or Campbell?

Immersion literally puts core subjects in another language so it’s going to be hard to excel at standardized tests in all subjects.

Campbell is about being out in nature, not studying for tests or reading

Re: immersion— maybe in lower grades, but immersion kids in MS/HS level outperform their non-immersion peers on at least some of the standardized tests.

I disagree with this full as an immersion parent. Love that my child is part of the program and is almost fully dual language but when it comes to testing and some other stuff they are behind because we choose to put immersion first. I think it all depends on what you want for your kid and dual langue was top priority for us.

This may be true for your individual child, especially if he or she is still young. But research does show immersion kids outperforming peers in at least some areas (immersion in general— not just in APS). As a local example, the kids taking immersion biology at Wakefield consistently outperform non-immersion kids on the biology SOL, even though they are taking the class in Spanish and the SOL is in English.

Would like to know where these stats are posted or provided at least the local example you provided.

https://wakefield.apsva.us/spanish-immersion/

“ 2014-2015 & 2015-2016, 2016-2017 100% Spanish Immersion Students passed the Biology SOL test”

I think overall the pass rate is around 85%, but I’m having trouble finding the number right now.

There’s a lot that has changed since 2017 let alone from 2014 or earlier. I’m not sure I would assume this is still the case today.

You’re right that a lot has changed for everyone post Covid. But I know the biology SOL/immersion thing was still true a year or two ago (might not be 100% now, but immersion kids scoring higher) from talking to the teachers. I don’t know about other stats.

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Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.

ATS serves a population of kids that’s different from the population at my ES. Accordingly, needs/wants of the families differs. So not a one size fits all.

I don’t want any homework. My children are devouring books on the weekends and after school because we read all the time with them and independently. I view reading as the most significant outside work in elementary school. My children and their fiends play outside in their neighborhood independently and for hours. This is what I want them spending time on. We have very few behavior problems—look there are a handful of kids—but generally kids come from strong families. So I don’t care about some huge emphasis on behavior; the kids are generally good kids. All of my kids friends parents when to college and most grad school. They are engaged in their work and their families. I don’t need ATS elective group of families to have engaged parents. I have them.

I could see how my mindset would change being zoned for a different elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:Still trying to understand why other schools haven’t implemented some of the successful practices from ATS. It’s clearly a highly sought-after program, given the long waitlist and consistent positive feedback from both current and former families.

It’s been said multiple times. Plenty of families do not want homework, to be told their kid needs to tuck their shirt in, to be held to behavior standards, to read and sign a weekly update. All the other stuff doesn’t work if there isn’t buy-in.