Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

LOL this actually made me laugh. "no matter how much you pour in it, it will never be enough" -- do you feel that way with your own kids? Like, OK, I spent time with them yesterday so why do I need to see them again today? No.

THe people responding that she should be kinder probably DO have people like this. They're called family members and there is literally nothing wrong with family members needing each other. Some people even like being part of an extended family. Imagine that.

First, you're responsible for the care of your minor children. OP is not responsible for the care of her fully adult, married MIL.
Secondly, MIL is only kinda family. If OP's husband divorced her, MIL would almost certainly not be coming by all the time to see how she's doing.
Thirdly, some people don't enjoy being part of an extended family, and that's okay.

Anonymous wrote:I don't see her overstepping any boundaries. Yes, it sounds like a lot especially compared to those of us that have no family nearby, but man. She really loves spending time with you.

Why not redirect her energy in a way that helps her look forward to a visit. E.g. every Sunday dinner. Driving the kids to school, etc. That's what I've done with my parents. I give them purpose and put them to work. They see one of us daily. Not always me because that's too much for me, but they see one of the kids or my husband every day.

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Anonymous wrote:1. Lock your door.
2. When she wants to come by to drop something off, say no, you'll come by to pick it up at x o'clock. Then keep the car running and have one of the kids run up to her house to get it and they can say "We can't stay - we're in the middle of running errands."
3. Give less information. Don't tell her when you're heading out, heading on vacation, which night you're going to Red Lobster, etc.

I hope you don't have boys. And if so, expect nothing.

I expect that as I age I will continue having a full life with friends, as well as having and respecting boundaries, and picking up on social cues. So, I don't expect any problems!

You and all of your friends will be old one day, if you're lucky, and then you will be forgetting how to use the phone to call your friends or forgetting how to answer it when it rings. None of you will be able to have a full life being social. Have fun with the aide your DS and DIL pay for to keep your butt free of urine on a schedule instead of when you need it. She has boundaries, too, and she will keep them -- especially with no loved ones around to check up on you or your aide. Not only does she know how to keep boundaries but she won't give a crap about social cues, either -- you'll be left in bed or parked in front of the tv no matter how much of a clue you try to give her that you want something else, no matter how much time you spend trying to impress on her that YOU have the upper hand goddamn it, not her. She won't read those social cues. Have fun with that, PP.

What are you prattling on about? Nobody forgets how to use a phone! Yes, some friends will die because death is a part of live, but considering I have friends of all ages, not just mine, and I make friends easily, I'm not worried about being "old and alone." You seem convinced that every old person winds up infirm and in a wheelchair drooling and pissing themselves. I come from a long line of people who do things like drop dead on the tennis court at 98, doing what they love, or dying in their sleep after going to the theater at 102. On both sides of my family, everyone lives a long and full life. I imagine I will too, despite you trying to doom me to be lonely and confused at 70.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone - I got some good perspective from these responses and some subtle shifts that I can work on like picking something up.

To clarify, she did say “drop it off”. To give her some props though she did actually communicate with me beforehand which I appreciate and is a result of previous conversations.

Nevermind that she still passively inserts herself so she can get what she actually wants (I would have so much rather just fielded the question “would you like to get dinner”, but so it is what it is. I think she doesn’t ask out of habit but it’s also a way she gets what she wants and doesn’t have to risk a no.)

Husband does largely deal with her. We do see her regularly. Her level of aloneness and need to see us is beyond though. No exaggeration I mean like she would be at our house or us at hers literally every single day. There’s a story behind that as there usually is… her dh is basically absent despite being married. Lots of enmeshment with sons my dh has had to work through, and continues to.

Anyway, thanks all! Appreciate the thoughts

Why don't you invite her to stay for dinner? You obviously are not clueless about what she wants -- you just don't want to give it to her. "Her level of aloneness and need to see us is beyond" -- wtf? She's a lonely person who also is your MIL and you cannot figure out how to invite her over so she will be less lonely? You don't understand her connection to you, your DH or your kids? How can anyone be that dense. Are you on the spectrum OP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Lock your door.
2. When she wants to come by to drop something off, say no, you'll come by to pick it up at x o'clock. Then keep the car running and have one of the kids run up to her house to get it and they can say "We can't stay - we're in the middle of running errands."
3. Give less information. Don't tell her when you're heading out, heading on vacation, which night you're going to Red Lobster, etc.

I hope you don't have boys. And if so, expect nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Lock your door.
2. When she wants to come by to drop something off, say no, you'll come by to pick it up at x o'clock. Then keep the car running and have one of the kids run up to her house to get it and they can say "We can't stay - we're in the middle of running errands."
3. Give less information. Don't tell her when you're heading out, heading on vacation, which night you're going to Red Lobster, etc.

What a beeitch you are!

No I'm just a person very comfortable with setting boundaries. That means when I give, I am always happy to do it and never ever resentful or feeling used.

We cannot wait until you are in your 70s. Cannot wait.

Why, what do you think is going to happen? I'll try to passive-aggressively push my way in to places I'm not wanted? Lol, fat chance. I have a rich life with great friends of all ages now, and look forward to being retired and super busy. I will fit in time for my family sometimes, but my life won't revolve around them.

And everyone will know why you want to spend so much time with them -- because you don't have much of a family life. How sad. "We let her hang out with us but we have to make sure to have serious boundaries with her because we have our own families to spend time with." "I know, it's so sad that she keeps fishing for invitations and ways to socialize. I feel sorry for her so I usually try to come up with a way do do something with her once a month. It's like charity." "I feel so fortunate to have my family in my life! To think I could have ended up a pathetic old woman trying to pretend friendships are more important than family!" "There but for the grace of God go I." "I know!"

Anonymous wrote:She your husband’s mother. Show some respect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Lock your door.
2. When she wants to come by to drop something off, say no, you'll come by to pick it up at x o'clock. Then keep the car running and have one of the kids run up to her house to get it and they can say "We can't stay - we're in the middle of running errands."
3. Give less information. Don't tell her when you're heading out, heading on vacation, which night you're going to Red Lobster, etc.

I hope you don't have boys. And if so, expect nothing.

I expect that as I age I will continue having a full life with friends, as well as having and respecting boundaries, and picking up on social cues. So, I don't expect any problems!

You and all of your friends will be old one day, if you're lucky, and then you will be forgetting how to use the phone to call your friends or forgetting how to answer it when it rings. None of you will be able to have a full life being social. Have fun with the aide your DS and DIL pay for to keep your butt free of urine on a schedule instead of when you need it. She has boundaries, too, and she will keep them -- especially with no loved ones around to check up on you or your aide. Not only does she know how to keep boundaries but she won't give a crap about social cues, either -- you'll be left in bed or parked in front of the tv no matter how much of a clue you try to give her that you want something else, no matter how much time you spend trying to impress on her that YOU have the upper hand goddamn it, not her. She won't read those social cues. Have fun with that, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, people who do this really don’t care about what the other people want or enjoy. You are subservient role players in their image of what they want to do, They have little empathy and are laser focused on ensuring their desires are always met. This is why politely declining or graciously redirecting never works! They fundamentally don’t give a crap whether you have other things to do, didn’t invite them, don’t feel well or whatever. It’s never about you, it’s always about them.

They are also always searching for weaknesses. If you give in, they don’t think gee I really appreciate this and I’ll be mindful not to intrude again. Nope! They get a little dopamine hit that “ yeah, that worked! I got my way!” and they will 100% do it again and again.

They will think up pretenses. They aren’t bringing over a dish because they are thoughtful. No way, it’s a pretense to invite themselves over to dinner when they want regardless of your schedule.

I really think it’s a personality disorder that gets worse as it’s enabled. Especially, the anxious panic of constant calling if they don’t get their way. They enjoy the control, winning the game they are playing, and feeling important when they put their wants over your needs.

Op here - yes, this describes what happens when I do x versus y exactly.

Regarding finances for all those posting - my dh and I do not come from very different financial backgrounds, although my parents were immigrants and it’s definitely a rags to riches story for my family of origin.

My husbands assets from family are well protected in trusts, and I have no eye for them. There is a deal with the devil you make when you bring that type of transactional dynamic into a marriage and I’m not into it.

I am a minority though and my dh is white. My mil makes judgmental comments about other races lifestyles and ways of being in a tone that is incredulous and derogatory. She is basically a very subtle oblivious racist. Some of it is personality, some generational. She is all around quite judgmental though so it is what it is with her around all that.

She can be pleasant too. Thanks for the tips. Next time I will listen to my intuition instead of just rolling with it. I just wanted to get some other perspective. Def got a lot!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Lock your door.
2. When she wants to come by to drop something off, say no, you'll come by to pick it up at x o'clock. Then keep the car running and have one of the kids run up to her house to get it and they can say "We can't stay - we're in the middle of running errands."
3. Give less information. Don't tell her when you're heading out, heading on vacation, which night you're going to Red Lobster, etc.

I hope you don't have boys. And if so, expect nothing.

I expect that as I age I will continue having a full life with friends, as well as having and respecting boundaries, and picking up on social cues. So, I don't expect any problems!

You and all of your friends will be old one day, if you're lucky, and then you will be forgetting how to use the phone to call your friends or forgetting how to answer it when it rings. None of you will be able to have a full life being social. Have fun with the aide your DS and DIL pay for to keep your butt free of urine on a schedule instead of when you need it. She has boundaries, too, and she will keep them -- especially with no loved ones around to check up on you or your aide. Not only does she know how to keep boundaries but she won't give a crap about social cues, either -- you'll be left in bed or parked in front of the tv no matter how much of a clue you try to give her that you want something else, no matter how much time you spend trying to impress on her that YOU have the upper hand goddamn it, not her. She won't read those social cues. Have fun with that, PP.

How old are we talking here? My parents are both early-mid eighties, and they know how to use a phone and have a more active social life than I do! My father just drove to California from the Midwest to visit relatives; my mother has plans with friends for every day that he's gone. They're planning a trip to SE Asia soon. I think you're underestimating what older people are capable of.