Anonymous wrote:CS isn't dead but will be less jobs than people majoring in it.

All majors teach critical thinking skills. Engineering at least teaches how to problem solve and get stuff done.

Fewer, not less.
-liberal arts grad

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

as a parent to a non-CS engineering kid, this is where being at a top/rigorous school matters: difficult upper level/grad level is the norm there sometimes as sophomores, and advisors know to encourage the students to challenge themselves too. colleges new to CS were a dime a dozen the past few years: those with low-barrier entry have poorly done curricula. It's like JMU engineering vs stanford/MIT/CMU/princeton/penn, even yale has much more rigor than JMU and they are newer to Engineering and CS. The jobs for average and below CS will disappear. Coursework is key, just like high school but the stakes are higher

Many good public CS and engineering programs are rigorous, because of ABET. ABET also is the accrediting body for CS. One need not be at a “top” institution, but PP is correct to look at curricula before choosing a college. Examples of DMV local public universities with solid CS curricula include at least GMU, VCU, UVa, VT, UMCP, and UMBC.

Noooooo. Have you seen the syllabus for stem courses at these schools? UVA calc, physics and chem is taught at a completely different level than VCU. VCU is extremely slow paced and that continues through physics and engineering. My kids took classes for DE there in high school with undergrads and it is very very different. One went to UVA for math/cs and the other went to an ivy for engineering. UVA and the ivy are similar in rigor and grad/upper level offerings. VCU is not close to either. We know many professors in stem fields and they warned us but we did not fully see it until ours were in college. VCU covered in one semester what the ivy covered in 4 weeks. They are not at all the same. ABET is a minimum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

as a parent to a non-CS engineering kid, this is where being at a top/rigorous school matters: difficult upper level/grad level is the norm there sometimes as sophomores, and advisors know to encourage the students to challenge themselves too. colleges new to CS were a dime a dozen the past few years: those with low-barrier entry have poorly done curricula. It's like JMU engineering vs stanford/MIT/CMU/princeton/penn, even yale has much more rigor than JMU and they are newer to Engineering and CS. The jobs for average and below CS will disappear. Coursework is key, just like high school but the stakes are higher

Many good public CS and engineering programs are rigorous, because of ABET. ABET also is the accrediting body for CS. One need not be at a “top” institution, but PP is correct to look at curricula before choosing a college. Examples of DMV local public universities with solid CS curricula include at least GMU, VCU, UVa, VT, UMCP, and UMBC.

Anonymous wrote:Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

as a parent to a non-CS engineering kid, this is where being at a top/rigorous school matters: difficult upper level/grad level is the norm there sometimes as sophomores, and advisors know to encourage the students to challenge themselves too. colleges new to CS were a dime a dozen the past few years: those with low-barrier entry have poorly done curricula. It's like JMU engineering vs stanford/MIT/CMU/princeton/penn, even yale has much more rigor than JMU and they are newer to Engineering and CS. The jobs for average and below CS will disappear. Coursework is key, just like high school but the stakes are higher

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

All schools don't name course the same way.

Hiring managers can read, so they will figure out the topic of the course taken. Colleges do not encrypt the names of courses and it is easy to figure out. Feeling pedantic this evening?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...in the AI era, getting a CS degree from a SLAC with humanities courses and "soft skills" might be better than the tech schools. Go figure.🙂

My CS kid at a top public university is also majoring in History. You don't need to only go to a SLAC for this.

+1 lots of kids at DC's engineering school have minors in the fine arts too.

Anonymous wrote:Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

All schools don't name course the same way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...in the AI era, getting a CS degree from a SLAC with humanities courses and "soft skills" might be better than the tech schools. Go figure.🙂

My CS major at UMD is minoring in Philosophy and Math. I think when he's done he'll have completed 6 Philosophy courses, 1 additional humanities, history and two writing specific.

When I was a CS major eons ago, I had to take a philosophy class as part of the major requirement.

I double majored in CS and Philosophy.

Hiring manager here. It matters a lot which courses students choose to take in their CS Dept coursework.

There is a surplus of CS majors who did not take the harder upper-level CS electives and instead ONLY took easier upper-level electives (e.g., web programming, scripting). Many of those being laid off ormhaving trouble finding work have these skills.

There is a long-term/ongoing shortage of CS majors who took the harder electives (e.g., compilers, OS/kernel internals, assembly, real-time/embedded systems).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you have been talking about this for a while. I just stumbled across this today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1m2ofht/cs_is_dead_pls_read/

"ook i know this sounds like doom posting because it is. but someone needs to tell you the truth before you waste 4 years of your life

cs unemployment just hit 6.1% for new grads. thats HIGHER than liberal arts majors. let that sink in. computer engineering is even worse at 7.5%. you have better odds getting a job with an english degree

remember when everyone said "just get into faang"? 700+ people laid off DAILY in tech this year. meta alone cut 20k+. these aren't juniors, these are senior engineers with 10+ yoe now flooding the entry level market. you're not competing with other new grads anymore, you're competing with ex-google engineers willing to take 60k just to have a job. theyre lit cutting everyone w/ ai. coding is the first thing ai will take."

And the rest.....

This is silly. We can’t find decent programmers to fill mid level contracting roles making $140K. I’ve literally never seen a resume with FAANG experience applying for a government contracting job.

I feel like the people that waste time hand wringing about changes at the margins like this are the same people that base significant life decisions on $0.10 per gallon gas price fluctuations.

That is because they would be taking a 66% pay cut if they had more than a few years experience.

Yes. Which is why it’s nonsense to claim, as the poster above did, that ex-Googlers can’t find $60K jobs.

Anonymous wrote:CS isn't dead but will be less jobs than people majoring in it.

All majors teach critical thinking skills. Engineering at least teaches how to problem solve and get stuff done.

+1 The industry over hired, and too many kids who aren't good at CS majored in it because that was the hot major to make a lot of money. Gone are the days of six figure entry salary, but that doesn't mean that CS is dead. But, the heyday is definitely gone. Maybe that's why people feel like it's dead. It's not dead; it's just more like any other industry now.

Grads who aren't that great at CS, and/or doesn't interview well, either technically or personally, will have a harder time.

But grads who have good interview skills, can pass the technical interview, and knows how to use AI, they will still be able to find something, though not necessarily the high starting salaries they thought they were going to get.

CS isn't dead but will be less jobs than people majoring in it.

All majors teach critical thinking skills. Engineering at least teaches how to problem solve and get stuff done.

Anonymous wrote:Better odds of getting a 45K starting salary as a recent graduate with a BA in English, too. Let that sink in?

Not with all the non-profit jobs cut and the pipeline to non govt assoc taxpayer funded grants down to a trickle. I'd take the smart stem grad any day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...in the AI era, getting a CS degree from a SLAC with humanities courses and "soft skills" might be better than the tech schools. Go figure.🙂

My CS major at UMD is minoring in Philosophy and Math. I think when he's done he'll have completed 6 Philosophy courses, 1 additional humanities, history and two writing specific.

When I was a CS major eons ago, I had to take a philosophy class as part of the major requirement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...in the AI era, getting a CS degree from a SLAC with humanities courses and "soft skills" might be better than the tech schools. Go figure.🙂

My CS major at UMD is minoring in Philosophy and Math. I think when he's done he'll have completed 6 Philosophy courses, 1 additional humanities, history and two writing specific.

Per my DC, Philosophy is a fairly common minor for CS majors at CMU. Because... A reasonable percentage of math/logic/... courses at CMU are officially Philosophy so the CS kids are effectively taking CS classes while obtaining credits towards the required minor...

I don't know why some (ignorant) people claim CS doesn't teach critical thinking skills.

Low level coding doesn't require that much critical thinking skills, but advanced programming does. CS major also requires several high level math classes, which requires.. critical thinking skills.

DC is a dual math/CS major (as many are). In their CS internship, they were trying to figure out a way to make something run faster. They used some math algorithm to do it. They are at a different internship now and had to understand the complex internal architecture, and came up with some improvements and found some bugs.

Writing a high level software program requires a lot of analysis and critical thinking skills. These people aren't drones. I've done some coding myself, though I am not a SWE. When you are trying to design and write a program to address a process/issue, believe me, there's some heavy critical thinking and analysis going on.

Also, try debugging a massive piece of code, and tell me it doesn't require critical thinking skills.