Anonymous wrote:It's your sister's body/baby, so your sister's choice. Keep your opinions to yourself and be supportive

It’s also the baby’s life to consider.

You wish her well. It’s not the first time a baby was born at home.

It’s none of your business. If you want to make it your business, encourage them to have a licensed and regulated midwife. Not a “birth worker” someone with a degree and deep connections to their local health care community. I had two excellent homebirths, one where I also was sent to be monitored during pregnancy by an MFM and an endocrinologist. Both who complimented and coordinated care with my midwife just fine. Midwives work in community and care not just for low risk, but the average risks associated with birth. Hopefully she lives in a state where homebirth midwives are legally able to carry anti-hemorrhage drugs. If not, that would give me pause. My midwives had to maintain emergency procedures protocols and neonatal resuscitation certification. The same certification and drills that your hospitals should be doing. Homebirth isn’t the issue here. Unattended care, distrust in systems is a much bigger issue.

If you believe that she had a right to choose an abortion (killing the fetus), she DEFINITELY has a right to choose the way she gives birth (to a fully developed fetus). Babies die in hospitals too and mothers die at a higher rate.

And even if you do *not* believe in abortion, she even *more* has a right to a homebirth where she has a lower chance of a c-section (and thus less risk of needing a medical abortion in the future).

Even naturopath (natural or "lay" midwives) know when to transfer to a hospital. There is so much false info out there but statistically a homebirth is SAFER than a hospital birth. 0 risk of an unnecessary c-section. 0 risk of an infection from a sick person (or from an eager nurse/doctor sticking their dirty hands up the pregnant woman -- which actually happens frequently). 0 risk of unnecessary drugs getting into the baby's blood stream.

One thing that you must consider -- the bad birth was IN a hospital. I don't know a single person who had a bad birth AT home -- not one. And all my friends and I all home birth. Of course, some of them did transfer (with certified and lay midwives) but they all ended up with healthy babies. The only people I know who had babies die (either in utero or immediately after iwth SIDS etc) were all planned hospital births -- mostly scheduled c-sections.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

But the OP’s sister is planning on no midwife, so your premises are all wrong.

It's your sister's body/baby, so your sister's choice. Keep your opinions to yourself and be supportive

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name

And what I was responding to is posters suggesting home births are so terrible that nobody should ever choose that option. That is contrary to what "the science" says about birth settings. There are safe home births and good midwives in the US and the anti home birth discourse on this thread is wildly ignorant.

Sure, would any good certified nurse midwife take this case? I don't think so, I think sister would be risked out which means you're going with a provider that is comfortable taking on a case that's much higher risk that the real pros won't touch. That seems like a bad idea.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

you're describing the least ideal hospital birth and the most ideal home birth.

if we could guarantee a highly-qualified midwife at every home birth I would feel better, but we can't... We do have a lot more ability to monitor the staff and ensure proper ones at a hospital. This is absurd to even discuss.

+1. And it does not matter how great your midwife is - if there is an emergency, care for your baby and yourself is going to be at least 30 minutes away at home.

Sometimes the emergencies are caused by the interventions in the hospital. Our C-section rates are absurdly high. That's not because women need so many c-sections, it's because our maternal health care system is fundamentally broken.

Ok give birth in a ditch.

Yep, that's the choice, either give birth in a hospital strapped to machines or in a ditch :roll:

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Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

And a large percentage of those babies, and mothers, died in childbirth. It’s insane to say “it’s fine”

Far too many babies and mothers today die before, during or after hospital births. It is insane to suggest hospital births are all safe and home births are all unsafe. There is a lot of variability among hospitals and among midwives that attend home births.

Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

And a large percentage of those babies, and mothers, died in childbirth. It’s insane to say “it’s fine”

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

you're describing the least ideal hospital birth and the most ideal home birth.

if we could guarantee a highly-qualified midwife at every home birth I would feel better, but we can't... We do have a lot more ability to monitor the staff and ensure proper ones at a hospital. This is absurd to even discuss.

+1. And it does not matter how great your midwife is - if there is an emergency, care for your baby and yourself is going to be at least 30 minutes away at home.

Sometimes the emergencies are caused by the interventions in the hospital. Our C-section rates are absurdly high. That's not because women need so many c-sections, it's because our maternal health care system is fundamentally broken.

Ok give birth in a ditch.

Her body her choice.

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Anonymous wrote:Millions of babies were/are born this way it’s fine.

True. And millions died. Encourage her to at least work with a legitimate midwife - they will get her and the baby to a hospital if needed. What does the babies other baby think about this?

You know that we have horrible maternal and infant mortality compared to other “first world” countries right Because of managed care the clock starts when you walk in and labor has to “progress”. When it doesn’t an epidural is given which makes contractions much, much strong and causes more complications because it is stressful for the baby…meconium in the water or heart rate dropping. Then you are more likely to have a c-section. Doctors will not get sued for doing too much, but they do for doing too little.

Homebirths attended by a midwife are quite common in the Netherlands which has much better birth outcomes than the US. Key is attended by a midwife, being willing to transfer if needed and living close enough to a hospital.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name

And what I was responding to is posters suggesting home births are so terrible that nobody should ever choose that option. That is contrary to what "the science" says about birth settings. There are safe home births and good midwives in the US and the anti home birth discourse on this thread is wildly ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m physician and I am so sorry. People on this thread making these statements and citing all the stats are ignoring so many confounding variables. They’ve obviously never had to comfort women who lost their infants bc they waited too long to go to the hospital.

That being said, you don’t get to make this decision. The best thing you can do is be there for your niece or nephew and if things start going south encourage proper care.

Tragically, many more maternal and infant deaths occur before/during/after hospital births than home births.

Are you talking in absolute terms? Because i hope you understand that there are millions more births in hospitals than home births.

Obviously.

My point is that hospitals can be and often are unsafe places to give birth.

This is straight up propaganda.

Nope. Hospitals are increasingly understaffed. We have horrible maternal and infant mortality rates in the US and the vast majority of births are in hospitals.

I have nothing specifically against hospital births, I myself had my daughter in a hospital but I think it's completely insane to bash women who choose an alternative setting for their birth, given how appalling the hospital outcomes are.

the only place more understaffed than a hospital is your house. no doctors or nurses there.

Actually having a professional trained in facilitating childbirth who is with you continuously is more than most people get in the hospital. People have had babies the hospital without a single medical attendant in the room.

Yes, there are bad midwives and bad OBs out there. A good midwife knows when a transfer to the hospital is needed.

Homebirth midwives are laughably untrained compared to OBs and even L&D nurses. You’re much better off with a doctor overseeing multiple laboring women at once than one crunchy “birth workers” with you all day.

In other developed countries midwives deliver most babies and they have much better birth outcomes in those countries.

In other developed countries midwives are consistently and reputably well trained it's analogous to certified nurse midwifes here. They also do not take on patients such as ops sister. And there is a well connected system with the hospital.again not what ops sister is doing. What ops sister is doing is stupid, dangerous and selfish for her and the baby and the biggest critics of it should be people in favor of homebirth because it gives the entire system a bad name