Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

There is zero incentive for students. Meanwhile it’s all central office cares about- so it’s all school leaders care about. And it affects whether certain teachers keep their jobs. But the people actually taking these hours and hours of tests? It means nothing. That is what parents should focus on.

I would love to but they set it up to avoid it. CAPE doesn't start until 3rd. ECE in DCPS is honestly great, and I've was happy with 1st-2nd -- great teachers, more screen time than I like but it wasn't out if control, my kid was learning and happy. CAPE starts and school gets boring and annoying. Our teachers actually do a ton to keep kids engaged but there's no way to get around CAPE. So suddenly this school we really liked is not so great. Families start peeling off in 5th for charters or private.

We have one kid. There's no learning curve. We're moving because we can't afford private. The end.

By the time you see the writing on the wall, it feels too late to change it to help your kid. I'm tired. I work, my spouse works. DC is so expensive. We're just trying to keep our heads above water.

I'd join a movement. I can't start a movement. And at this point, I just want to go where I don't have to.

We switched to BASIS for middle from DCPS and been interesting to see how little they emphasize CAPE, compared to our DCPS elementary where it was talked about by the entire school on end and they prepare for weeks and the kids feel a ton of pressure and they stretch it out for a long time. At BASIS in 5th grade the admin hardly talked about it, all the classes just stuck to their normal syllabus (not much appearance of specialized CAPE prep) and my kid said they knocked the three tests out in 3 days and then got back to their normal routine (which does involve a lot of learning and being tested on the material.)

Maybe it's because BASIS has many other tests that come from the franchise that the kids need to do well at, and that their grades are dependent on, so of course teachers focus on that material. But it was really interesting to see. BASIS kids go very well on CAPE, too, maybe bc they are used to test taking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

There is zero incentive for students. Meanwhile it’s all central office cares about- so it’s all school leaders care about. And it affects whether certain teachers keep their jobs. But the people actually taking these hours and hours of tests? It means nothing. That is what parents should focus on.

I would love to but they set it up to avoid it. CAPE doesn't start until 3rd. ECE in DCPS is honestly great, and I've was happy with 1st-2nd -- great teachers, more screen time than I like but it wasn't out if control, my kid was learning and happy. CAPE starts and school gets boring and annoying. Our teachers actually do a ton to keep kids engaged but there's no way to get around CAPE. So suddenly this school we really liked is not so great. Families start peeling off in 5th for charters or private.

We have one kid. There's no learning curve. We're moving because we can't afford private. The end.

By the time you see the writing on the wall, it feels too late to change it to help your kid. I'm tired. I work, my spouse works. DC is so expensive. We're just trying to keep our heads above water.

I'd join a movement. I can't start a movement. And at this point, I just want to go where I don't have to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

There is zero incentive for students. Meanwhile it’s all central office cares about- so it’s all school leaders care about. And it affects whether certain teachers keep their jobs. But the people actually taking these hours and hours of tests? It means nothing. That is what parents should focus on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.

Excellent post.

My kid just finished CAPE testing. Heard from her and a bunch of other kids about how students, when they get tired or bored or the question is too long, just select a random answer. When there is a text box, they write a haiku about how much DCPS sucks, or how such and such teacher should be fired.

I fully do not understand what incentive there is for students to taking state testing seriously. They’re made to do many hours (maybe 10 hours) but the data must be worthless. How can they tell the difference between a student who tries to do their best, a student who doesn’t care at all, and a student who sometimes tries and sometimes blows it off? What a giant waste of time and effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well of course, because upper NW already has decent public schools.

What you are focused on is schools having enough kids at or above grade level so classes can actually be taught at grade level.

What you are missing is that even if demographics are such that a school is not overwhelmed by non-academic needs, DCPS still sucks. DCPS does not do a good job of educating its students. It hires lame leaders, who then do a poor job of selecting and/or rewarding the best principals, who are the ones who can select and motivate the best teachers etc etc. DCPS picks crappy curricula and forces schools and teachers to use it. They require way too much testing and stupid Central-produced assignments like Required Curricular Tasks. They don't pay teachers for extra-duty so club and extracurricular offerings are lacking. They do a terrible job of providing sports at the MS and HS levels except for the smallest schools. And they hide rather than acknowledge and attempt to address these weaknesses. The school system runs like it is in perpetual poverty -- there is not enough money to have smaller classes, to have more class offerings, to pay athletic coaches the going rate, etc etc. -- but where is the advocacy of the Chancellor explaining how much money is needed and why and where is the good judgment in getting rid of stupid, wasteful programs aimed at instilling "pride" but that don't build the substance on which a real feeling of accomplishment rests. Yada yada yada.

Sure, stuff changes as demographics change around the city.

But what about systematic change to the way the school system actually does its job?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread with good potential, totally derailed.

What makes for a good school? OP is clearly interested in policy changes, but many are/would be satisfied with demographic changes alone.

And even when it comes to policy changes, most that I've see championed on DCUM are just defacto demographic changes. What's a good policy change that would amount to more than just shuffling students around?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread with good potential, totally derailed.

What makes for a good school? OP is clearly interested in policy changes, but many are/would be satisfied with demographic changes alone.

And even when it comes to policy changes, most that I've see championed on DCUM are just defacto demographic changes. What's a good policy change that would amount to more than just shuffling students around?

Anonymous wrote:Thread with good potential, totally derailed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well of course, because upper NW already has decent public schools.

What you are focused on is schools having enough kids at or above grade level so classes can actually be taught at grade level.

What you are missing is that even if demographics are such that a school is not overwhelmed by non-academic needs, DCPS still sucks. DCPS does not do a good job of educating its students. It hires lame leaders, who then do a poor job of selecting and/or rewarding the best principals, who are the ones who can select and motivate the best teachers etc etc. DCPS picks crappy curricula and forces schools and teachers to use it. They require way too much testing and stupid Central-produced assignments like Required Curricular Tasks. They don't pay teachers for extra-duty so club and extracurricular offerings are lacking. They do a terrible job of providing sports at the MS and HS levels except for the smallest schools. And they hide rather than acknowledge and attempt to address these weaknesses. The school system runs like it is in perpetual poverty -- there is not enough money to have smaller classes, to have more class offerings, to pay athletic coaches the going rate, etc etc. -- but where is the advocacy of the Chancellor explaining how much money is needed and why and where is the good judgment in getting rid of stupid, wasteful programs aimed at instilling "pride" but that don't build the substance on which a real feeling of accomplishment rests. Yada yada yada.

Sure, stuff changes as demographics change around the city.

But what about systematic change to the way the school system actually does its job?

Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread derailed because people were talking about the changes they have seen in a positive direction in the past 10+ years, and how to build off of them (which morphed into demographic changes in the last 10+ years...)

As was said above, more middle schools are offering advanced coursework, literacy instruction has been revamped, and at least at the elementary schools I am familiar with, kids are getting more science instruction than they used to (kids were getting WAY less than they were supposed to).

IMO, if you step way back and look at education, the past few decades and the obsession/focus on prepping kids for standardized testing has kind of broken the system. Especially now that we take a test that no other state uses, so we can't even use the data to see how we are doing relative to other states. So much of what the kids do in school (especially towards the end of the year) is prepping for these test - and the pressure from the top down is horrible. Using data to inform teaching is helpful, but I think tests like iReady or MAP can help with that since they actually show results in real time, and can demonstrate growth.