Anonymous wrote:I don't know. I do know you have to have high stats to begin with to even apply so it self selects before the rates you mention

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the main topic of this thread, it is interesting to see the latest Harvard-Westlake admissions outcomes handbook showing a recent spike in StA applications as well as a declining offer rate.

A few years ago StA appeared to be a guaranteed offer for students from this excellent school.

Would love see more of these stats if you can share.

If you are interested in geeking out on stats, there are a number of St Andrews data sets available on whatdotheyknow.com resulting from freedom of information requests.

For example, a request made on 12 May 2024 titled Admission Data shows the number of applicants and offers made by course of study for 2023-2024. Note the data includes offers, not acceptances net of conditions being met. Thus, their true US equivalent acceptance rate will be lower by some unknown amount. Also there is a large offer rate variance based on subject. For example, the Economics offer rate was in the mid-teens while the overall school’s offer rate was 30%.

Does anyone know, generally, what percent of students with conditional offers meet their conditions? Piecing together data from other time periods, it looks like roughly 50-66% of overall StA offers are conditional, roughly 33% of those accept their conditional offer, and then about 20% of those students fail to meet their conditions.

Squinting and being lazy about running real numbers, it’s possible the US equivalent acceptance rates for higher demand courses is around 10% +/- including all students and even tougher for UK students. Does this seem right? Not that it matters very much, just a fun mental exercise.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. I do know you have to have high stats to begin with to even apply so it self selects before the rates you mention

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the main topic of this thread, it is interesting to see the latest Harvard-Westlake admissions outcomes handbook showing a recent spike in StA applications as well as a declining offer rate.

A few years ago StA appeared to be a guaranteed offer for students from this excellent school.

Would love see more of these stats if you can share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is in the mix alongside U.S. T30s because it offers the chance to dive deeper into academic interests while gaining the benefits of an international experience (socially, intellectually, and in terms of personal independence), all without sacrificing a sense of community.

His hesitation stems largely from not fully understanding what the student body at St Andrews is like, or what the true U.S. equivalents/proxies would be to help him understand that. Since StA is a rare choice at his prep school, the content most readily available to him tends to focus on incredibly high satisfaction score, the relatively high offer rate, internet flame wars about prestige, and a mixed bag of YouTube videos that range from ultra-privileged party types to super chill, down-to-earth students that don’t drink. Very contradictory information.

This thread is already super helpful. Anything more to add on this front from those with first/second hand experience would be wonderful.

Parent of recent STA grad currently at Harvard Law here.

I wouldn’t worried about internet flame wars about prestige. Utterly ridiculous. This has increased after 2 UK publications put STA above Oxbridge 2 years in a row. The reaction was swift. There should be no fantasies here the STA is above Oxbridge. But that doesnt mean it is not an amazing university that is focused on undergraduate education.

His UK classmates will have one of the and sometimes the highest tariff rates of any university in the UK. His UK classmates wont be avg. They are smart driven kids. The sense of community is amazing.
For an independent kid who knows how to study on his own without the need of constant feedback like quizzes/homework etc, this is a great environment. Your 1st two years (anywhere in Scotland) is basically PASS or FAIL. Those grades do not compute into your GPA (first, 2:1, 2:2 etc). So you have two years to get your act together explore other modules (most of the time you can one module in your programme and 2 modules that could be anything). My niece did Management, and then a module in Italian and one in MacroEcon. Her friend was in Econ and besides the Macro semester 1 modules, she tool Film studies and Art History. This gives you even more time to mature a little, make sure you want to study what you sign up to study and prepare for the honors years. While these first two year modules are assigned a grade (0-20) These grades are irrelevant. All it matters is that you pass. Once you are in your Honors years (Jr and Sr) then your grades will matter.

Offer rates are irrelevant. Specially for international. They have 20%+ Americans. They know the vast majority of these kids come from wealthy backgrounds, therefore they are competing with Private University in the US for the same talent. Being across the pond, means they need to have a decent offer rate to guarantee a decent yield of qualified applicants.

One thing to keep in mind is look at not only the Satisfaction Rate (16 of 17 yrs the highest rate in the UK) but also the retention rate. STA has a 97%+ retention rate for 1st years. This is almost unheard of in the US and very few in the UK match that. This a huge deal. Hard to keep that high of a retention rate if kids are not happy, failing, or not enjoying their time there.

As far as reputation, again, this is so relative. If the plans is to stay in the UK, the answer is obvious. The reputation is great. If you come back to the US, there are a lot of companies that active recruit there. Specially consulting firms.

If the goal is grad school back home (Law School for instance) this would be great. As far as prospects back in the US, STA has one of the highest population of Americans graduating year year (about 500 or so on avg per year). Assuming 75% comes back home (I Don’t know the number), that is a large number. Top US employers know and understand STA. My cousin runs a boutique recruiting firm in New England placing recent grads up to 5 yrs of experience in consulting, investment and corporate jobs. He has run through several STA grads over the years and they have all placed very well. You also have to remember and be mindful that since the avg type of American kid that goes there are well connected and wealthy (i know they are not all wealthy, but a big number is) and they come from NY, LA, SF, CT, DC/VA, they end up getting great placements at some of the top companies in the US which helps with diffusing information about STA in corporate America. Just look at LinkedIn to see where these grads are working in those cities.

As far as true equivalents that is a very difficult question and a very personal one. It is so hard to compare two completely different education systems. One the one hand the type of UK kid that attends St Andrews are in the top 3% of their “high schools”. Does it mean it is on par with Ivy Leagues? Not necessarily. Certain subjects are incredible, others not so much. As you can see in this thread people are choosing STA over other t30 programs. This is pretty common, specially if the US uni your kid got is is a full pay private. That will make the ST cost 50% of their US counterpart. If you have merit, then the story changes. Also, dont forget there is a scholarship for brilliant international students.

As for weather, most people dont realize but STA weather is not that bad coming New England. Winters are not as cold (rare to go below 30), and not as wet (drier than NYC on an annual basis) and they actually get more sunshine hours in a year than anywhere else in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/sunniest-university-st-andrews-to-harness-solar-power-n9nf96xl8


The final almost irrelevant plus, but a nice one, hard to find another university in such an amazing setting like St Andrew’s to spend 4 years. Tiny town of 20k, where the uni is 10k. The village and campus are intertwined. Great setting where you basically know everyone. Amazing place to spend 4 years focusing on your studies and making friends that will last a lifetime.

Anonymous wrote:For those of us with kids interested in St Andrews, came accross the data for US Applications and Acceptances per state between 2021 and 2023.

Some interesting Stats for those who care:

Number of Enrolled students from the US:

2021: 384
2022: 524
2023: 471

NY and CA have on avg 1/3 of the US enrollment (about 50/50 between both states)
VA, TX, NJ, MA and CT account for roughly another 1/3. (Almost evenly divided with CT a little ahead of the avg).

But the one interesting stat is to look for which of these states outperforms their offers.
For example, California averaged 15.3% of the total US applications over the 3 year period, but accounted for 16% of the offers.
Besides California, Connecticut, MA and VA outperformed their applications.
The other ones (NY, TX, NJ) all underperformed.

Another interesting find is that in 2023 almost 50% of those getting offers from Connecticut end up enrolling.
The numbers for every other state is about 33% for 2023. Wonder why CT is so ahead of the game here with enrollment?

Considering St Andrews concentrate their US efforts in NY and California these findings are not surprising. Also not surprising that the vast majority of placements in the US are in NY and CA, with DC, Chicago and Dallas a distant 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is in the mix alongside U.S. T30s because it offers the chance to dive deeper into academic interests while gaining the benefits of an international experience (socially, intellectually, and in terms of personal independence), all without sacrificing a sense of community.

His hesitation stems largely from not fully understanding what the student body at St Andrews is like, or what the true U.S. equivalents/proxies would be to help him understand that. Since StA is a rare choice at his prep school, the content most readily available to him tends to focus on incredibly high satisfaction score, the relatively high offer rate, internet flame wars about prestige, and a mixed bag of YouTube videos that range from ultra-privileged party types to super chill, down-to-earth students that don’t drink. Very contradictory information.

This thread is already super helpful. Anything more to add on this front from those with first/second hand experience would be wonderful.

Parent of recent STA grad currently at Harvard Law here.

I wouldn’t worried about internet flame wars about prestige. Utterly ridiculous. This has increased after 2 UK publications put STA above Oxbridge 2 years in a row. The reaction was swift. There should be no fantasies here the STA is above Oxbridge. But that doesnt mean it is not an amazing university that is focused on undergraduate education.

His UK classmates will have one of the and sometimes the highest tariff rates of any university in the UK. His UK classmates wont be avg. They are smart driven kids. The sense of community is amazing.
For an independent kid who knows how to study on his own without the need of constant feedback like quizzes/homework etc, this is a great environment. Your 1st two years (anywhere in Scotland) is basically PASS or FAIL. Those grades do not compute into your GPA (first, 2:1, 2:2 etc). So you have two years to get your act together explore other modules (most of the time you can one module in your programme and 2 modules that could be anything). My niece did Management, and then a module in Italian and one in MacroEcon. Her friend was in Econ and besides the Macro semester 1 modules, she tool Film studies and Art History. This gives you even more time to mature a little, make sure you want to study what you sign up to study and prepare for the honors years. While these first two year modules are assigned a grade (0-20) These grades are irrelevant. All it matters is that you pass. Once you are in your Honors years (Jr and Sr) then your grades will matter.

Offer rates are irrelevant. Specially for international. They have 20%+ Americans. They know the vast majority of these kids come from wealthy backgrounds, therefore they are competing with Private University in the US for the same talent. Being across the pond, means they need to have a decent offer rate to guarantee a decent yield of qualified applicants.

One thing to keep in mind is look at not only the Satisfaction Rate (16 of 17 yrs the highest rate in the UK) but also the retention rate. STA has a 97%+ retention rate for 1st years. This is almost unheard of in the US and very few in the UK match that. This a huge deal. Hard to keep that high of a retention rate if kids are not happy, failing, or not enjoying their time there.

As far as reputation, again, this is so relative. If the plans is to stay in the UK, the answer is obvious. The reputation is great. If you come back to the US, there are a lot of companies that active recruit there. Specially consulting firms.

If the goal is grad school back home (Law School for instance) this would be great. As far as prospects back in the US, STA has one of the highest population of Americans graduating year year (about 500 or so on avg per year). Assuming 75% comes back home (I Don’t know the number), that is a large number. Top US employers know and understand STA. My cousin runs a boutique recruiting firm in New England placing recent grads up to 5 yrs of experience in consulting, investment and corporate jobs. He has run through several STA grads over the years and they have all placed very well. You also have to remember and be mindful that since the avg type of American kid that goes there are well connected and wealthy (i know they are not all wealthy, but a big number is) and they come from NY, LA, SF, CT, DC/VA, they end up getting great placements at some of the top companies in the US which helps with diffusing information about STA in corporate America. Just look at LinkedIn to see where these grads are working in those cities.

As far as true equivalents that is a very difficult question and a very personal one. It is so hard to compare two completely different education systems. One the one hand the type of UK kid that attends St Andrews are in the top 3% of their “high schools”. Does it mean it is on par with Ivy Leagues? Not necessarily. Certain subjects are incredible, others not so much. As you can see in this thread people are choosing STA over other t30 programs. This is pretty common, specially if the US uni your kid got is is a full pay private. That will make the ST cost 50% of their US counterpart. If you have merit, then the story changes. Also, dont forget there is a scholarship for brilliant international students.

As for weather, most people dont realize but STA weather is not that bad coming New England. Winters are not as cold (rare to go below 30), and not as wet (drier than NYC on an annual basis) and they actually get more sunshine hours in a year than anywhere else in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/sunniest-university-st-andrews-to-harness-solar-power-n9nf96xl8


The final almost irrelevant plus, but a nice one, hard to find another university in such an amazing setting like St Andrew’s to spend 4 years. Tiny town of 20k, where the uni is 10k. The village and campus are intertwined. Great setting where you basically know everyone. Amazing place to spend 4 years focusing on your studies and making friends that will last a lifetime.

Anonymous wrote:There are regional meet-ups. California happened about 3 weeks ago.

Anonymous wrote:It seems that

- globalization is only increasing
- even if they not a disaster under Trump, best case scenario is that US schools maintain their worldwide reputation

I wonder if international schools are only on the rise

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are undecided on StA, what other schools are in the mix?

UVA OOS, USC and UCLA (from Cal).

DS already dropped UVA and UCLA. Now between USC and St Andrews.

Anonymous wrote:Back to the main topic of this thread, it is interesting to see the latest Harvard-Westlake admissions outcomes handbook showing a recent spike in StA applications as well as a declining offer rate.

A few years ago StA appeared to be a guaranteed offer for students from this excellent school.