Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

Commuting is not an ADA issue. You are not entitled to accommodations to avoid the commute regardless of the condition.

Are you an attorney?

Some of these commutes are 2 hours long. Many middle aged and older women suffer from degrees of incontinence. They would have to stop at a bathroom, making their commute even longer. I would argue that the commute itself absolutely is an issue for these people and that remote work is a reasonable accommodation.

You can argue whatever you would like. But the folks in your hypothetical could also wear adult diapers, or simply stop as needed even if it added a bit to the commute.

The PP you were responding to is wrong that telework can’t be an accommodation, but garden variety incontinence issues is not getting you work from home.

I never said TW can’t be an accommodation. What I said is that employers are not required to accommodate if the issue is the commute.

That’s false, unless in-person physical presence is an essential function of the job.

Where no one has been in-person for half a decade, the hill for proving that is steep, upwards, and likely to lead to losses in court.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of 1 boy crying wolf it’s 20% of them. Very unfortunate for those that really need accommodations.

Why so many feds seeking accommodations? Not seeing this in private sector.

Anonymous wrote:A number of attorneys at my office are trying to claim reasonable accommodation in order to avoid RTO because they bought houses so far away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

Commuting is not an ADA issue. You are not entitled to accommodations to avoid the commute regardless of the condition.

Are you an attorney?

Some of these commutes are 2 hours long. Many middle aged and older women suffer from degrees of incontinence. They would have to stop at a bathroom, making their commute even longer. I would argue that the commute itself absolutely is an issue for these people and that remote work is a reasonable accommodation.

You can argue whatever you would like. But the folks in your hypothetical could also wear adult diapers, or simply stop as needed even if it added a bit to the commute.

The PP you were responding to is wrong that telework can’t be an accommodation, but garden variety incontinence issues is not getting you work from home.

I never said TW can’t be an accommodation. What I said is that employers are not required to accommodate if the issue is the commute.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

30-40 years ago, far fewer people could even do their jobs from home. There was no internet. People were using faxes. For someone to work from home would have required far more resources and accommodation on the employer side, and most jobs just wouldn’t be possible. If someone had physical limitations preventing them from working in person, they likely were unable to work at all.

Remote work makes it possible for many disabled people to work who might otherwise be unable to.

That’s true. But the majority of people now putting in for RAs to continue permanent or extensive telework somehow managed to come into the office pre pandemic.

The people you are referring to are not the ones all of a sudden seeking accommodations.

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure all the shop workers and waiters are rolling their eyes at your need for WFO. Most people have long commutes and make less. Also true for hospital workers, mechanics and receptionists. If they get sick or have kids and can’t make it work, they find a new job close to home, work PT or quit. America doesn’t make it easy since there’s almost no safety net.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting on mine. Multiple mental heath conditions that require sleep hygiene and medications not compatible with daily 4 hours spent commuting.

I believe you that your mental health isn’t compatible with commuting 4 hours but I hope you didn’t say “sleep hygiene” in your request. I also suspect you will get denied because living 2 hours away from the office is a choice. No one’s mental health is compatible with 4 hours of commuting. But I hope it works out for you!

This is why people resent Feds. I am not Trump supporter and have mental health issues but… WTF interpreting the ADA to cover crap like this is ridiculous. Reasonably accommodate your darn self, 4-hour-commute PP.

Anonymous wrote:Instead of 1 boy crying wolf it’s 20% of them. Very unfortunate for those that really need accommodations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got an immune condition that requires going to the 5 doctors every time I "flare." What I'd like to do is not have to take the entire day off for those doctors appointments, but instead telework half days. Is that something you'd request a reasonable accommodation for? The doctors I see are not the type where you get to choose the time of your appointment, particularly on short notice; you just go when they say.

Yes, you can request intermittent telework and leave to deal with these flare ups.

but do I have to get a formal 'reasonable accommodation'?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got an immune condition that requires going to the 5 doctors every time I "flare." What I'd like to do is not have to take the entire day off for those doctors appointments, but instead telework half days. Is that something you'd request a reasonable accommodation for? The doctors I see are not the type where you get to choose the time of your appointment, particularly on short notice; you just go when they say.

Yes, you can request intermittent telework and leave to deal with these flare ups.

but do I have to get a formal 'reasonable accommodation'?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

I agree with you except that your assumption is that the pre-Covid approach is the gold standard. It isn't. It reflects the way the work world operated before technology enabled us to do things differently.

If workers' lives are more manageable and the work still gets done and traffic is lighter and less carbon is emitted and children are better off and people have more time to exercise and cook dinner and enjoy the sunshine, what is the point of returning to the pre-Covid way of working?

I work unconventional hours so my free time is during the day.

All I can say is that the coffee shops, Homegoods, Target, Costco, Whole Foods and local restaurants are now half empty during the day. One month or so ago, they were packed all day long. Especially the coffee shops and stores.

A lot of people were getting their work done during the day, but just as many were out shopping, catching up with friends and getting their hair done.

Yep. I’m a nurse who has worked in person for the last 10 years, 3 days/week. The change on the roads in the middle of a weekday now — ie, a couple of weeks after massive RTO in the DMV — has been DRAMATIC. I am still doing my Target runs on a Tuesday at 10:30 am like I have been consistently since 2015. This week, the arterial roads and the stores and the hair salon and the vet and the Rock Creek trails look like they used to 2015-2020. Because tens of thousands of white collar workers are at their computers at 10:30 on a Tuesday instead of getting highlights, doing Pilates, doing tempo runs and exploring Bailey’s diarrhea at the vet.

Were you required to take an elective economics class before becoming a nurse? Because consumer confidence is way down across the board which means people just aren't spending in optional things like highlights, the vet, etc. But go on blaming people on remote work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people, but I do think during Covid people got used to WFH/ being able to run to Target/go for walks/pick up kids and check emails a few times, etc. Be grateful for a job. Many people have been RTO since 2021/2022!

When I was a child my single mom (dad died) had cancer. She went to work and also had doctors appointments, surgery, chemo, etc. I still remember her picking me up from after school at the very end with lit her colostomy bag and kids also being picked up would make fun of her. She didn't complain, was a great and present mom, and went into an office and worked. She ended up dying and we moved in with an aunt who was/never got not married, who went into an office everyday and some weekends.

I learned a lot as kid, could do my own laundry, homework, etc, and was never babied! I see cousins who have parents who basically do/did everything for them. One lives at home at age 29 and refuses to work, two others had their mom write many papers in HS and college for them, and many have their parents pay for their expensive life after they graduated college.

My aunt hired high school babysitters and a neighbor who was a SAHM with similar aged kids to watch us after school and in the summer since camps were too expensive. My grandparents also took us for a couple weeks in the summer.

No one is forcing you to stay at your job. If you don't like RTO then apply elsewhere. It will be hard with so many people out of work, but if you don't like what is required as an employee then leave.

I feel for the people with real things that need to be protected. Being upset you have a 2 hour commute stinks but pushing for an accomodation takes time away from someone who actually needs one.

I did not vote for this, but reading posts on here make me realize so many people are out of touch.

That's what I was thinking, too. It was only 5 years ago that this was the life almost everyone led. Sucky commutes, less time with kids, long stressful days at the office.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but a lot of people are acting like WFH is kind of the baseline. An entitlement. When it's really the last few years that have been weird.

I agree with you except that your assumption is that the pre-Covid approach is the gold standard. It isn't. It reflects the way the work world operated before technology enabled us to do things differently.

If workers' lives are more manageable and the work still gets done and traffic is lighter and less carbon is emitted and children are better off and people have more time to exercise and cook dinner and enjoy the sunshine, what is the point of returning to the pre-Covid way of working?

I work unconventional hours so my free time is during the day.

All I can say is that the coffee shops, Homegoods, Target, Costco, Whole Foods and local restaurants are now half empty during the day. One month or so ago, they were packed all day long. Especially the coffee shops and stores.

A lot of people were getting their work done during the day, but just as many were out shopping, catching up with friends and getting their hair done.

Yep. I’m a nurse who has worked in person for the last 10 years, 3 days/week. The change on the roads in the middle of a weekday now — ie, a couple of weeks after massive RTO in the DMV — has been DRAMATIC. I am still doing my Target runs on a Tuesday at 10:30 am like I have been consistently since 2015. This week, the arterial roads and the stores and the hair salon and the vet and the Rock Creek trails look like they used to 2015-2020. Because tens of thousands of white collar workers are at their computers at 10:30 on a Tuesday instead of getting highlights, doing Pilates, doing tempo runs and exploring Bailey’s diarrhea at the vet.

Were you required to take an elective economics class before becoming a nurse? Because consumer confidence is way down across the board which means people just aren't spending in optional things like highlights, the vet, etc. But go on blaming people on remote work.

DP, but do you really think that people being back to the office hasn’t played a big role in this?