Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

I can’t tell, is your argument nationalist or straight racist?

Neither, those schools just aren’t as good. Sorry. There are plenty of great schools in Asia but those aren’t it and they aren’t at that high of a level.

But definitely call anyone you disagree with nationalist or racist! Very normal, reasoned behavior.

What do u know about Tsinghua University mr know it all? The ridiculous american bias coming from your comments are ridiculous.
Tsinghua University‘S acceptance rate is less than 1%…. Xi Jinping, Hu Jintao and Chen Jining would have disagreed w you…

You basically saying that the 2nd largest economy in the world and its best university cant possibly compete with our best here???
Either you are typical uniformed american or you live with your head buried in the sand….. u might want to get out some more….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

I can’t tell, is your argument nationalist or straight racist?

Neither, those schools just aren’t as good. Sorry. There are plenty of great schools in Asia but those aren’t it and they aren’t at that high of a level.

But definitely call anyone you disagree with nationalist or racist! Very normal, reasoned behavior.

What do u know about Tsinghua University mr know it all? The ridiculous american bias coming from your comments are ridiculous.
Tsinghua University‘S acceptance rate is less than 1%…. Xi Jinping, Hu Jintao and Chen Jining would have disagreed w you…

You basically saying that the 2nd largest economy in the world and its best university cant possibly compete with our best here???
Either you are typical uniformed american or you live with your head buried in the sand….. u might want to get out some more….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

What was the condition he had to meet?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

I can’t tell, is your argument nationalist or straight racist?

Neither, those schools just aren’t as good. Sorry. There are plenty of great schools in Asia but those aren’t it and they aren’t at that high of a level.

But definitely call anyone you disagree with nationalist or racist! Very normal, reasoned behavior.

Anonymous wrote:...those schools just aren’t as good. Sorry. There are plenty of great schools in Asia but those aren’t it and they aren’t at that high of a level

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

I can’t tell, is your argument nationalist or straight racist?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Agree we will disagree. I can’t take seriously a ranking that puts Tsinghua University ahead of Chicago and Princeton (QS), or Fudan University at the same level as King’s (an insult to King’s) or Karolinska Institute ahead of LSE (both THE).

That’s not to say King’s or Edinburgh are bad universities—on the contrary, they are quite good. But you seem to be arguing that there is no limit to how high they can be considered, and on that we will definitely agree to disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.

That is what my son did. He had a ED offer from USC last year and a conditional from LSE. He met the conditional and is now finishing up his 1st year in London.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Ok then. Let’s trust “most people” (that you know) vs a dozen of so international rankings including our own US News rankings of global universities…I’m the biggest critic of rankings, but when you have rankings from a dozen different countries saying something similar there must be something there……so lets agree to disagree….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Well, I didn’t say half these things for one.

But no, you can’t just look at rankings and make this assessment. Sorry, except for maybe a handful of subjects, King’s is not at the same level as a Columbia or a Brown, Edinburgh not at the same level as Yale, Duke, or Northwestern (all cited in the previous response). They are good schools but most people would not put them in a group that high, including on reputation, resources, academic support, job placement, grad school placement, quality of individual academic departments, etc. UCL is probably the one the comes closest to cracking the top rung, but still probably more toward the bottom of that rung than the top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

As a tenured professor in a STEM field at one of the top universities in the U.S., I have spent years engaging in high-level research and collaborating with scholars worldwide. My husband, also a tenured professor at the same institution, specializes in the social sciences. While neither of us, nor our colleagues, place much stock in university rankings, it becomes evident over time that certain institutions consistently produce exceptional scholars and researchers who contribute meaningfully to academia at the highest levels.

From our experience, the universities you mentioned, UCL, Edinburgh, and King’s College, are highly respected by leading U.S. institutions, including our own. Not only do many of our colleagues at top-tier universities actively collaborate with faculty and graduate students from these institutions, producing research of the highest caliber, but we also personally know and work alongside several professors at our own institution who earned their undergraduate or advanced degrees from these universities. Their contributions to academia and the quality of their scholarship speak for themselves, reinforcing the strong reputation of these institutions. This level of engagement and academic excellence is not coincidental; it is a reflection of the intellectual rigor and scholarly foundation these universities have built over time.

In contrast, many institutions that rank highly in various commercialized rankings, often placed in the so-called “T50,” do not necessarily command the same level of respect within serious academic circles. Sustained academic reputation is built through impactful research, influential scholarship, and the strength of a university’s academic community, not annual rankings that use ridiculous metrics that change year over year. Those of us in academia recognize and understand the reputation of certain institutions based on their consistent contributions to research and scholarship, not on arbitrary fluctuations in rankings designed more for marketing than for meaningful evaluation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

I disagree as it relates to UCL, Edinburgh and Kings. There is a reason every major world ranking that takes into account research ranks them that highly (even the American biased USNWR rankings say so)…….You cant discount research and quality of research and just say “well…I think it is more like T50”. There is a reason research at these places are done at the top level…..Better universities bring better funding and more qualified professors, in turn they produce more research, which in turn brings in more funding, which in turn bring in better students, which in turn ……... It is a cycle that has been going on forever….you can discount an amazing research output of a school that has produced 20 Nobel Prize Winners and say “nah…I dont agree….it is all irrelevant…….they are at the same level of VT or FSU”. Cmon…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting Thread. We have a Junior that is adamant about going abroad.

Outside of Oxbridge/LSE or Imperial, how the next level of UK universities compare to US universities? I’m not asking about Job Prospects. Just a comparison of pedigrees in since this always the topic around DCUM.

What are the US universities that would group well with each of these?

UCL
Kings
Edinburgh
St Andrews

Based on QS rankings:

UCL - in between Caltech and Penn/Berkeley
Edinburgh - in between Yale and Columbia
Kings - in between Columbia and UCLA/NYU/Michigan

based on Times Higher Education:

UCL - around Cornell/Michigan/Columbia/UCLA
Edinburgh - around Duke/Nothwestern/NYU
Kings - around UCSD and ahead of Brown/UT etc

Based on US News:

UCL right by Columbia and Yale
Kinds and Edinburgh about tied and right by NYU

Based on # of Nobel Prize Winners according to Aron Frishberg website:

UCL - 24 (around Penn and Washington U)
Edinburgh - 20 (around NYU, UCSD and ahead of UCLA and Michigan
Kings - 11 (around Duke and USC)
St Andrews - 3 (around Missouri/Pitt and FLorida)

St Andrews doesnt do well in World Rankings as these are usually weighted towards research output and quality of research and not so much on undergraduate teaching.

But you can clearly see based on a variety of sources, the equivalent universities….

I think this would be correct within the UK, as in how these universities are perceived in a relative sense. In other words, Oxford/Cambridge are sort of the HYP of the UK, and LSE is a Penn/Chicago, Imperial an MIT, and so on.

But in terms of actual comparison with US universities, I’m not sure I would put UCL, Edinburgh, Kings, etc as high as the list above. UCL is maybe a T30, Edinburgh and Kings T50s. Or maybe you could make an argument of all as T30s, it isn’t exact. But aside from research output, I would put these schools a bit lower than their QS or THE rankings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for posting. Currently tossing up potential choices for DS if a conditional offer for economics from Edinburgh comes through (already has offer from Durham).

Similar spot here. Son has offers from Bristol and Exeter. Waiting on Edinburgh and St Andrews.
Is your son leaning Edinburgh if everything comes through?

My DD got unconditional offers at St. Andrews and Edinburgh in November, but has heard nothing from the LSE.

Anyone hear anything from there?

Is she really planning on attending one of the three? As of now, is she leaning STA or UofE?

I'm hoping she'll choose a US option! I don't like the idea of her so far. But the choice is hers. I will discourage anything that isn't unconditional -- I don't want that hanging over her head in June and July.

It’s OK takes up an offer from an American university and a conditional offer from a UK university. It’s sort of like staying on the waitlist of the school.