Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

I don't have contempt for empathy. I have contempt for pity. I also abhore false empathy, which is when people pretend to have empathy but really are just virtue signaling and drawing attention to themselves.

"due to historical and ongoing harms."

BS. That's called grievance politics and the left uses it spectacularly to gain monetary concessions from everyone else. It's grifting.

But that game is ending after 150 years of it.

You pull your weight or starve.

And BTW, we're not paying $200K a year for a "DEI specialist" anymore. Those days are over.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

They’re just downright cruel. But, if that’s your thing.

The Republicans are downright cruel and honest about it. The Democrats are downright cruel and lie about it. They share their cruelty, but their methods for portraying it to others vary.

I’m definitely going to need examples of Dems cruelty.

God, where to start?

- Destroying the education of the most vulnerable students in the pandemic, leading to lifelong serious harm, in favor of trade unions that lobby for them. The data on the harm is incontrovertible, and after spring 2020, was known. Republicans showed more compassion for the most vulnerable children in the pandemic than Democrats did (and I say that as a registered Democrat in a blue state). The harms to those kids due to school closures will never be mitigated, and lives were not saved. The cynical ploy to buy party loyalty from the unions worked, and it’s obvious that’s what it was.

- Don’t even get me started on the grotesque harms promulgated on vulnerable women and children by the male supremacist movement known as trans rights. Medicalized transition of children — hotly defended and pushed by Democrats — is going to remembered in history the way lobotomies are (and that’s if it’s not remembered the way the Tuskegee poisonings/murders are).

- I live in a blue state and the progressive policies towards the homeless cannot be described as anything other than exceptionally cruel. Democrats push policies that have people die on the street.

- Defund the police is cruel, particularly as it tends to be pushed by wealthy white liberals who never have to live with the consequences.

I could go on and on and on.

The Dems prioritized public health over school. Whether you agree with it or not, there wasn’t cruelty behind it.

Your second point is crazy. Dem inclusivity isn’t intended as cruelty. Also, that “cruelty” wouldn’t affect you. Unlike all of the felon’s plans affecting large swaths of Americans.

I will never talk to MAGA again about the police. You do not back the blue whatsoever.

Are you saying that Dems killed people on the street because they didn’t force them into shelters?

This response is an excellent example of how Democrats are more interested in appearing empathetic than actually being empathetic.

True empathy requires a willingness to be critically honest with oneself about failures and cruelties. And “I didn’t mean it” or “we didn’t intend cruelty” is not a defense: if cruelty is an impact of policies promulgated by Democrats, good intentions when implementing those policies are irrelevant—unless you care more about the appearance of empathy versus actual empathy.

You refuse to look soberly at the cruel impact of Democratic policies, you lash out with name-calling, and when cornered, you attack. You really demonstrated the point made earlier that ego is what drives Democrats, not actual empathy.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

I don't have contempt for some empathy.

When you get to a point where half the country is supporting the other half and the democrat party's ONLY agenda is constant redistribution of income, then I have contempt for it. BIGLY.

Go watch a democrat speak today. It's always about one thing. Taking from one group and giving to another. Equity and all that crap. It is rampant today.



From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Karl Marx

this is what i've seen again and again and i think is at the crux of MAGA. MAGA thinks equity is unfair. If i must go to the office, so must you - even if you dont need to for your work. If I must wait to go through official channels to immigrate then so should you, even if you are running from violence.
They aren't interested in making changes that make it EASIER for others, bc it was not easier for them.

Yes, equity is unfair. Equality is not.

The difference is equity means you want guaranteed outcomes.

Equality means you want an even playing field.

No - that is not what equity means. Equity means recognition that not everyone is starting from the same baseline due to historical and ongoing harms. We can debate about the policies needed to advance everyone towards an end goal but there are many other policies to raise people up who have been left behind. Policies other than DEI training or hiring quotas.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

They’re just downright cruel. But, if that’s your thing.

The Republicans are downright cruel and honest about it. The Democrats are downright cruel and lie about it. They share their cruelty, but their methods for portraying it to others vary.

I’m definitely going to need examples of Dems cruelty.

Endless foreign wars.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

They’re just downright cruel. But, if that’s your thing.

The Republicans are downright cruel and honest about it. The Democrats are downright cruel and lie about it. They share their cruelty, but their methods for portraying it to others vary.

I’m definitely going to need examples of Dems cruelty.

God, where to start?

- Destroying the education of the most vulnerable students in the pandemic, leading to lifelong serious harm, in favor of trade unions that lobby for them. The data on the harm is incontrovertible, and after spring 2020, was known. Republicans showed more compassion for the most vulnerable children in the pandemic than Democrats did (and I say that as a registered Democrat in a blue state). The harms to those kids due to school closures will never be mitigated, and lives were not saved. The cynical ploy to buy party loyalty from the unions worked, and it’s obvious that’s what it was.

- Don’t even get me started on the grotesque harms promulgated on vulnerable women and children by the male supremacist movement known as trans rights. Medicalized transition of children — hotly defended and pushed by Democrats — is going to remembered in history the way lobotomies are (and that’s if it’s not remembered the way the Tuskegee poisonings/murders are).

- I live in a blue state and the progressive policies towards the homeless cannot be described as anything other than exceptionally cruel. Democrats push policies that have people die on the street.

- Defund the police is cruel, particularly as it tends to be pushed by wealthy white liberals who never have to live with the consequences.

I could go on and on and on.

If you were angered by the prolonged school shut downs (as was I as a dem) and concerned about crime in your community, then the rationale thing is to vote for more moderate or conservative candidates for local government. In fact I have personally done so. Homelessness is also a local government issue. Medical gender transitioning of children is something that will get worked out within the medical community.

None of this is going to be fixed by Trump. Not a single thing you mentioned at all is under the control of this administration and in fact the MAGA policies at the national level will just push local communities that are already blue to become even more progressive in response, so congrats you have just contributed to making things worse.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s contempt as much as it is people think that your idea of empathy is overrated.

Some people prioritize sane and logical decision making to empathy.

This. Liberals use “empathy” as a cudgel to manipulate people and get their way.

Examples are like not wanting to use pronouns- “Why are you so transphobic? You know you could be more emphatic and just do it!!!”

Taking note of the MILLIONS of illegal immigrants that are putting a huge strain on housing, hospitals and schools “If only you could walk in their shoes and acted like a Christian”

ok this is super interesting.
as a liberal it feels like it just isn't really an inconvenience to use someone's pronouns BUT i do agree it kind of went to like a weird place. but i think the tension is that the need to do it felt like - quite small, vs the performance of doing it.
but i do think if someone wants you to use whatever pronoun you should just suck it up and do it no? just dont make it into a whole song and dance.

Why do you believe compelled speech is empathetic? I am genuinely asking; I honestly do not understand why liberals believe forcing speech of others is empathetic.

I do think it is.
We are forced to be polite all the time so as not to hurt people or to be respectful. My kids school they call teachers by their first name but for a while they went to school in Fla and were asked to call them ‘miss x’. That was forced speech. But whatev. That was important to those teachers

Ah. That is a key difference you have unconsciously uncovered. You view people who disagree with you as children who must be compelled to behave. You probably also favor using state power to suppress speech you disagree with. So, you are in favor of both compelling and suppressing speech, where you are the figurative adult and your political opponent is the figurative child.

That is not empathic at all in my view. That is in fact borderline fascist.

You just put a bunch of words in the mouth of app and then called them a fascist for those things that they never said. That about sums up the experience of talking with a MAGA.

DP and that really hit a nerve, I can see.

Maybe re-read what the PP said and reflect a little.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s contempt as much as it is people think that your idea of empathy is overrated.

Some people prioritize sane and logical decision making to empathy.

This. Liberals use “empathy” as a cudgel to manipulate people and get their way.

Examples are like not wanting to use pronouns- “Why are you so transphobic? You know you could be more emphatic and just do it!!!”

Taking note of the MILLIONS of illegal immigrants that are putting a huge strain on housing, hospitals and schools “If only you could walk in their shoes and acted like a Christian”

ok this is super interesting.
as a liberal it feels like it just isn't really an inconvenience to use someone's pronouns BUT i do agree it kind of went to like a weird place. but i think the tension is that the need to do it felt like - quite small, vs the performance of doing it.
but i do think if someone wants you to use whatever pronoun you should just suck it up and do it no? just dont make it into a whole song and dance.

Why do you believe compelled speech is empathetic? I am genuinely asking; I honestly do not understand why liberals believe forcing speech of others is empathetic.

I do think it is.
We are forced to be polite all the time so as not to hurt people or to be respectful. My kids school they call teachers by their first name but for a while they went to school in Fla and were asked to call them ‘miss x’. That was forced speech. But whatev. That was important to those teachers

Forcing me to announce my pronouns when I don't want to is not empathetic. It is bullying and demands that I conform to your wishes.

Please cite any government law or policy forcing you to do so?

I’m a dem. I don’t want to list my pronouns either and never have. No one has ever made me or even asked me to.

I know some companies have asked employees to or offered online bio space to, but that is at private companies. As a fed, I’ve never been required to list my pronouns. I don’t think the government is requiring this of anyone and because we have civil rights laws protecting gender discrimination, I think it would be unlawful for even a private company to force you to identify your gender against your will.

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

Not MAGA but it is a vibe of the left's creation. Not at all the case. But what is different is the approach to the world. I think the left and the right can look at the same set of facts and have different approaches to deal with them. Both sides see the other as off or bad. While in fact both are not 100% right or 100% wrong.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

They’re just downright cruel. But, if that’s your thing.

The Republicans are downright cruel and honest about it. The Democrats are downright cruel and lie about it. They share their cruelty, but their methods for portraying it to others vary.

I’m definitely going to need examples of Dems cruelty.

God, where to start?

- Destroying the education of the most vulnerable students in the pandemic, leading to lifelong serious harm, in favor of trade unions that lobby for them. The data on the harm is incontrovertible, and after spring 2020, was known. Republicans showed more compassion for the most vulnerable children in the pandemic than Democrats did (and I say that as a registered Democrat in a blue state). The harms to those kids due to school closures will never be mitigated, and lives were not saved. The cynical ploy to buy party loyalty from the unions worked, and it’s obvious that’s what it was.

- Don’t even get me started on the grotesque harms promulgated on vulnerable women and children by the male supremacist movement known as trans rights. Medicalized transition of children — hotly defended and pushed by Democrats — is going to remembered in history the way lobotomies are (and that’s if it’s not remembered the way the Tuskegee poisonings/murders are).

- I live in a blue state and the progressive policies towards the homeless cannot be described as anything other than exceptionally cruel. Democrats push policies that have people die on the street.

- Defund the police is cruel, particularly as it tends to be pushed by wealthy white liberals who never have to live with the consequences.

I could go on and on and on.

The Dems prioritized public health over school. Whether you agree with it or not, there wasn’t cruelty behind it.

Your second point is crazy. Dem inclusivity isn’t intended as cruelty. Also, that “cruelty” wouldn’t affect you. Unlike all of the felon’s plans affecting large swaths of Americans.

I will never talk to MAGA again about the police. You do not back the blue whatsoever.

Are you saying that Dems killed people on the street because they didn’t force them into shelters?

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Anonymous wrote:A lack of empathy is part of my autism.

the idea that people with autism dont have empathy is false.
if you dont have empathy it''s not bc you are autistic.

I assume this was a joke. Just like how doing a Nazi salute is apparently a symptom of Autism.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, and liberals have empathy for contempt.

i dont think the second thing is true (I dont think it works as a concept though nice try), but ty for confirming the first.

This is why progressives lose. They are so stupid that they can't event understand the meaning when smart progressives insult them.

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Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

I don't have contempt for some empathy.

When you get to a point where half the country is supporting the other half and the democrat party's ONLY agenda is constant redistribution of income, then I have contempt for it. BIGLY.

Go watch a democrat speak today. It's always about one thing. Taking from one group and giving to another. Equity and all that crap. It is rampant today.



From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Karl Marx

this is what i've seen again and again and i think is at the crux of MAGA. MAGA thinks equity is unfair. If i must go to the office, so must you - even if you dont need to for your work. If I must wait to go through official channels to immigrate then so should you, even if you are running from violence.
They aren't interested in making changes that make it EASIER for others, bc it was not easier for them.

Yes, equity is unfair. Equality is not.

The difference is equity means you want guaranteed outcomes.

Equality means you want an even playing field.

True. But how do you achieve that?

By banning the act of looking at inequality, thereby making everything look equal.

OP: do you believe it is empathetic to compel rape victims to refer to their attackers as “she” in court? To sanction those who don’t?

I’d like to understand a bit more where your empathy lies.

I have voted both republican and democrat in the past. I do think some of the criticisms of the left are supported.

What I can’t wrap my mind around though is how anyone of any political persuasion or socioeconomic status could listen to Trump speak, observe his actions, and think “yeah, this is the guy I want to lead the country.”

Also to some of the complaints people have mentioned — ok some of the DEI stuff was smug and I think listing pronouns (unless you are clearly gender ambiguous) is silly. But the level of harm is nowhere near the things going on right now to dismantle our government workforce, threaten other nations, cutting of aid to vulnerable populations, and basically take actions that will lead to massive job loss and economic harm. I’d rather just treat trans people with respect and call them whatever name they prefer. It really has little effect on anyone.

Re: immigration yeah we need a system. Things are not great as is. But I think it’s cruel to not require companies to use eVerify because that is politically unpopular, and then suddenly rip people out of this country after years of living here. Like we have to make sure the businesses who donate money to the politicians don’t get pissed off. So we’ll allow them to use up the undocumented immigrants when it benefits us, but then as soon as we decide we no longer want them, we send them off on military planes.

Like we could have just disincentivized economic migration through the use of business reforms instead. But people want their cheap stuff and then they also want to feel superior to brown people and cheer at the thought of them being shipped away. You can’t tell me there isn’t a lot of disgusting racism within the MAGA party. I really wish the true conservatives had managed to stop Trump long before we got here.