Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:53
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anyone else in an area that is awfully quiet? Read over in Reddit recently promoted Spes are resigning as they live nowhere near an office. Heard they also can’t demote back to examining.
OGC is being forced back. To sit in rooms and write and be in teams meetings. We’ve hired people who live outside the DMV and people have moved in the last few years (throughout all OGC). These people face some sad and hard decisions. And our ability to have the best in the country is now gone. And lots within the office will be leaving.
Productivity is going to take a big hit.
Can't the agency find a fed gov building close to their residence. I thought this plan was wide-spread. It is for HHS.
what % of Americans or any fed or PTO personnel live within 50 miles of a fed gov building?
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:50
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anyone else in an area that is awfully quiet? Read over in Reddit recently promoted Spes are resigning as they live nowhere near an office. Heard they also can’t demote back to examining.
OGC is being forced back. To sit in rooms and write and be in teams meetings. We’ve hired people who live outside the DMV and people have moved in the last few years (throughout all OGC). These people face some sad and hard decisions. And our ability to have the best in the country is now gone. And lots within the office will be leaving.
Productivity is going to take a big hit.
Can't the agency find a fed gov building close to their residence. I thought this plan was wide-spread. It is for HHS.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:47
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
Long run yes. Right now no.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:19
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
In 2-5 years, definitely
If AI replace patent/trademark examiners, they also will replace patent/trademark attorneys. Then it's AI vs. AI.
It's the ending scene of the movie "WarGames." The winner is None.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:09
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
In 2-5 years, definitely
Not at all.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:06
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
In 2-5 years, definitely
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:04
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
No.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 17:00
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
CAN'T AI replace most of the people?
Anonymous
02/07/2025 16:58
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anyone else in an area that is awfully quiet? Read over in Reddit recently promoted Spes are resigning as they live nowhere near an office. Heard they also can’t demote back to examining.
OGC is being forced back. To sit in rooms and write and be in teams meetings. We’ve hired people who live outside the DMV and people have moved in the last few years (throughout all OGC). These people face some sad and hard decisions. And our ability to have the best in the country is now gone. And lots within the office will be leaving.
Productivity is going to take a big hit.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 16:51
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anyone else in an area that is awfully quiet? Read over in Reddit recently promoted Spes are resigning as they live nowhere near an office. Heard they also can’t demote back to examining.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 09:42
Subject: Re:Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:I'm a current Trademark Examiner who has been here since the late 90's. What the former examiner is referring to is our form paragraphs. Yes, there are standard paragraphs that cite the current law. When we refuse a trademark, the grounds are the same for many refusals. There is no use reinventing the wheel. It also keeps us consistent across the examining corps.
Having said that, it is false to say we don't draft our own letters or that we don't write our own explanations. We have plenty of autonomy. We were hired and trained to use our judgement. Trademark examination is subtle and I don't think that AI is up to the task yet.
I've also never worked anywhere as a lawyer that didn't use templates and form paragraphs. You don't rewrite motions and judges don't write new orders from scratch every time that would be a huge waste of time. You tweak your caselaw over time, particularly if a new decision comes down.
But of course there's analysis and application of case law to your specific facts.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 09:10
Subject: Re:Patent Office RTO Predictions
I'm a current Trademark Examiner who has been here since the late 90's. What the former examiner is referring to is our form paragraphs. Yes, there are standard paragraphs that cite the current law. When we refuse a trademark, the grounds are the same for many refusals. There is no use reinventing the wheel. It also keeps us consistent across the examining corps.
Having said that, it is false to say we don't draft our own letters or that we don't write our own explanations. We have plenty of autonomy. We were hired and trained to use our judgement. Trademark examination is subtle and I don't think that AI is up to the task yet.
Having said that, it is false to say we don't draft our own letters or that we don't write our own explanations. We have plenty of autonomy. We were hired and trained to use our judgement. Trademark examination is subtle and I don't think that AI is up to the task yet.
Anonymous
02/07/2025 08:47
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How's the cafeteria in Alexandria doing? That was always a nice place, prior to the pandemic.
New vendor, barely staffed and barely doing any business. Food is okay but limited choices and unpredictable which stations will be open on a given day. When the entree station is open the portions are enormous. If the office fills up they will have to ramp up the operation.
This. It's pretty expensive relative to 8 or 9 years ago (but what isn't). I had the "Asian station" food the other day, and it was pretty bad. But that may have just been a bad day
Anonymous
02/07/2025 08:45
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Email from POPA says examiners are safe to continue work from home.
But supervisors are screwed?
Supervisors and anyone non-bargaining, like OGC, OCFO, etc.
Yes, we're screwed.
And we take zero appropriated funds. So you're saving exactly nothing by doing this and if/when people leave.
+1 Most Americans don't know that USPTO is fully funded by fees for patents and trademarks. No tax dollars, at all.
This is going to have a disastrous impact on American IP even if it's non-bargaining employees required to RTO. It's hard enough to recruit talent leaders in any position. Think about IT and cybersecurity positions.
Pretty sure Leon plans to RIF most feds anyway and replace them with AI. PTO examiners who stare at computers all day reviewing seem like a prime target for AI replacement.
That would be a hell of an AI system
I wonder what sort of nonsense an AI examiner would hallucinate? As a patent practitioner, at least I might find it amusing appealing something like that.
We've received responses from attorneys that must have been made using AI. It makes up case law.
I worked at the PTO as a trademark examiner over 15 years ago. We had to learn keyboard codes connected to different sentences and paragraphs that would write the letters. We were not allowed to draft the letters ourselves.
That's definitely not the case today and I doubt it was 15 year years ago.
Ok, well, it was true in the 2005-2007 range. We had a big binder and computer file of paragraphs we could use and there were codes you could type in that would input the paragraphs, phrases, or sentences in the letter.
Sounds like my dad ca 1993 with Word Perfect!
Anonymous
02/07/2025 08:09
Subject: Patent Office RTO Predictions
Anonymous wrote:How's the cafeteria in Alexandria doing? That was always a nice place, prior to the pandemic.
New vendor, barely staffed and barely doing any business. Food is okay but limited choices and unpredictable which stations will be open on a given day. When the entree station is open the portions are enormous. If the office fills up they will have to ramp up the operation.