Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.

DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.

You need to understand how many kids out there have parents who don't care about their kids' education. They send them to school and that's the end of their involvement. Many aren't even getting them to school (and that's an entirely different issue!). They aren't teaching their kids anything. That's the role of schools. I have many, many students with MIA parents. They could be incarcerated, dead, generally disinterested in their kids, living with relatives, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Even the ones who aren't in these categories don't see themselves as educational role models for their kids as many never finished school. If nobody at home ever asks to see your report cards or asks about what you are learning at school, even the best student won't care about school by MS.

I agree, but not sure what this has to do with anything. All the more reason to offer these classes at school.

When your parents don't care, very few kids will care about school and learning. They are lost by MS. They don't give a crap about a financial literacy class. They often read far below grade level and don't hand in work. They don't attend school regularly because who would if your parents don't care and don't make you go.

So are you saying that because of these particular kids, classes like financial literacy shouldn't be offered? I'm sorry, but no. We don't pull everything down to meet the lowest possible standard. And I would also argue that a lot of the kids you describe find school to be a lifeline, without which they would NEVER be exposed to any educational concepts at all. Again - all the more reason to offer these classes at school.

I never said they shouldn't be offered but it won't do them any good. They are not in class, sleeping through class, on their phones/laptops, etc. My DH teaches these students and they mostly are done with school by MS. By HS, they are years behind in reading and math. Many of them have missed 50+ days of school beginning in kindergarten. It's no wonder why they are so far behind. I teach them in kindergarten and you can often see the trajectory at age 5/6. The LEAST number of days of school my kindergarteners have missed is 14 (I have 24 students). Nearly half of them were considered chronically absent (missing 18 or more days of school) by the end of the 1st quarter.

My question is, why aren’t the school attendance policies enforced? Years ago they had truancy officers. They should hire more social workers and have them go house to house (or apartment to apartment) enforcing mandatory schooling for the good of our society.

Anonymous wrote:OP, your premise is completely wrong and poster after poster has presented articulate rebuttals.

I think OP is absolutely correct. In fact, I know it. I’m wondering who you are. Are you a consultant with a PhD in education? Or a junior college grad with no kids in the schools yet?

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Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.

You are so obtuse it’s painful. I’m saying these degree programs which are represented in college aren’t fields explored in high school. That’s it. It really isn’t that complex.

We don’t ‘track’ children here deciding who will be a truck driver vs an astronaut at age 10. It’s a very efficient system but one that doesn’t provide for much social mobility or free will.

We certainly do if you’re in a decent district. Magnet schools is just tracking without saying it. IB- and advanced schools are tracking.

DP. AP classes (and IB) are open to all. However, I do agree that AAP (in FCPS) is tracking at its worst. Advanced classes should be open to anyone interested who can do the work - starting in elementary school.

Some districts orient IB programs to only certain schools that are advanced, So only the best students get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watched the stand up special from Ronny Chieng last night and he had a really funny bit about how his MAGA friends are willing to die for America but there not willing to do math homework for America, and what America really needs is more people who are willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy.
I’m not doing it justice but it was both funny and very smart.

There's no need to bring politics into this, but since you did... tell us all about the abysmal schools and test scores of urban inner-city kids. Are they "willing to do their math homework" and "willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy"? We'll wait.

Of course you bring urban kids in first. The dog whistle is really getting slobber all over it from the people on this forum. Could’ve talked about anyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.

You are so obtuse it’s painful. I’m saying these degree programs which are represented in college aren’t fields explored in high school. That’s it. It really isn’t that complex.

We don’t ‘track’ children here deciding who will be a truck driver vs an astronaut at age 10. It’s a very efficient system but one that doesn’t provide for much social mobility or free will.

We certainly do if you’re in a decent district. Magnet schools is just tracking without saying it. IB- and advanced schools are tracking.

DP. AP classes (and IB) are open to all. However, I do agree that AAP (in FCPS) is tracking at its worst. Advanced classes should be open to anyone interested who can do the work - starting in elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is a bubble of high achieving kids and helicopter parents (including myself). However, I have friends and family in education all over the country and it's absolutely horrific in low income areas. Kids and familes are in such chaos, it almost feels hopeless.

Are you at a private school? Look around “the best” schools in the DMV and you will find plenty of examples! I pulled my then- third grader from public shortly after the following happened:

1) kid could not do a report on our country of heritage because the school distributed a map that was incorrect. It was just missing my grandfather’s homeland, which is an island nation. Rather than have my kid correct the map and / or teach others an “extra,” the teacher said we could only choose one of the countries on her incorrect map from Central Office;

2) absolutely failing schools because of extreme disruptions due to FAPE regulations. Yes, disabled kids have a right to a free public education, but not if they disrupt the classroom and assemblies so much that my own kid isn’t learning;

3) similar to above, mainstreamed kids with major emotional regulation issues who not only disrupt the classroom, but physically harm other students and teachers;

I could go on, but it just makes me upset.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.

You are so obtuse it’s painful. I’m saying these degree programs which are represented in college aren’t fields explored in high school. That’s it. It really isn’t that complex.

We don’t ‘track’ children here deciding who will be a truck driver vs an astronaut at age 10. It’s a very efficient system but one that doesn’t provide for much social mobility or free will.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.

DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.

You need to understand how many kids out there have parents who don't care about their kids' education. They send them to school and that's the end of their involvement. Many aren't even getting them to school (and that's an entirely different issue!). They aren't teaching their kids anything. That's the role of schools. I have many, many students with MIA parents. They could be incarcerated, dead, generally disinterested in their kids, living with relatives, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Even the ones who aren't in these categories don't see themselves as educational role models for their kids as many never finished school. If nobody at home ever asks to see your report cards or asks about what you are learning at school, even the best student won't care about school by MS.

I agree, but not sure what this has to do with anything. All the more reason to offer these classes at school.

When your parents don't care, very few kids will care about school and learning. They are lost by MS. They don't give a crap about a financial literacy class. They often read far below grade level and don't hand in work. They don't attend school regularly because who would if your parents don't care and don't make you go.

So are you saying that because of these particular kids, classes like financial literacy shouldn't be offered? I'm sorry, but no. We don't pull everything down to meet the lowest possible standard. And I would also argue that a lot of the kids you describe find school to be a lifeline, without which they would NEVER be exposed to any educational concepts at all. Again - all the more reason to offer these classes at school.

I never said they shouldn't be offered but it won't do them any good. They are not in class, sleeping through class, on their phones/laptops, etc. My DH teaches these students and they mostly are done with school by MS. By HS, they are years behind in reading and math. Many of them have missed 50+ days of school beginning in kindergarten. It's no wonder why they are so far behind. I teach them in kindergarten and you can often see the trajectory at age 5/6. The LEAST number of days of school my kindergarteners have missed is 14 (I have 24 students). Nearly half of them were considered chronically absent (missing 18 or more days of school) by the end of the 1st quarter.

What is it, exactly, that you would like to see happen?

Here is a good start:

1) Free, quality childcare from infancy for all kids whose parents work and make below certain income limits. Sliding scale after that limit.
2) Qualify food for kids in daycare-high school. The "food" the students current get is mostly total crap.
3) A much better home and parenting situation. Something similar to the resources in the Harlem Children's Zone in NYC.
4) Paid sick leave for everyone.
5) Paid parental leave for everyone.
6) Free and required annual checkups for all kids (not just them getting shots at shot clinics). We are seeing a lot of issues in our 5 yr olds that should've been caught before this (vision, hearing problems, autism, speech issues, etc). If early intervention is key, early detection is needed.

Anonymous wrote:I watched the stand up special from Ronny Chieng last night and he had a really funny bit about how his MAGA friends are willing to die for America but there not willing to do math homework for America, and what America really needs is more people who are willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy.
I’m not doing it justice but it was both funny and very smart.

There's no need to bring politics into this, but since you did... tell us all about the abysmal schools and test scores of urban inner-city kids. Are they "willing to do their math homework" and "willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy"? We'll wait.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.

You are so obtuse it’s painful. I’m saying these degree programs which are represented in college aren’t fields explored in high school. That’s it. It really isn’t that complex.

We don’t ‘track’ children here deciding who will be a truck driver vs an astronaut at age 10. It’s a very efficient system but one that doesn’t provide for much social mobility or free will.

We certainly do if you’re in a decent district. Magnet schools is just tracking without saying it. IB- and advanced schools are tracking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I forgot this forum is majority upper middle class, so they don’t see the issues. On average, for the average, education is really poor in this country and not teaching the skills students need to get through college.

Where do you live? Here in the DMV, any attentive parent with a kid in the public schools has seen these issues. Heck, anyone with an Instagram account has seen these issues - check out Justin Ewad. China and Russia must really enjoy these videos as they show where we are heading. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-wfgprkKQ

Look back at this thread. A bunch of parents in denial that there’s an issue. Any change to education is seen as a good place to put pre professional education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your premise is completely wrong and poster after poster has presented articulate rebuttals.

Where are you finding articulate rebuttals? Just butthurt humanities grads who have paranoia about math have posted.

Based on this anecdote, we can predict that whatever crisis exists now dates back at least as far as your childhood.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.

You are so obtuse it’s painful. I’m saying these degree programs which are represented in college aren’t fields explored in high school. That’s it. It really isn’t that complex.

We don’t ‘track’ children here deciding who will be a truck driver vs an astronaut at age 10. It’s a very efficient system but one that doesn’t provide for much social mobility or free will.

Anonymous wrote:I forgot this forum is majority upper middle class, so they don’t see the issues. On average, for the average, education is really poor in this country and not teaching the skills students need to get through college.

Where do you live? Here in the DMV, any attentive parent with a kid in the public schools has seen these issues. Heck, anyone with an Instagram account has seen these issues - check out Justin Ewad. China and Russia must really enjoy these videos as they show where we are heading. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-wfgprkKQ

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your premise is completely wrong and poster after poster has presented articulate rebuttals.

Where are you finding articulate rebuttals? Just butthurt humanities grads who have paranoia about math have posted.

Based on this anecdote, we can predict that whatever crisis exists now dates back at least as far as your childhood.