Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

My full pay kid was waitlisted at a school where she was at the 75% for grades and test scores. Didn’t seem to help her at all.

It helps, but it is not the sole factor, especially if there are other kids who are full pay and with better stats. 75% < 90%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A T20 AO (retired/now in private college counseling practice) told me that AOs do look "favorably" on certain markers of wealth and that it's inevitable that a large number of successful applicants will always be wealthy and full pay. After all, half the class is full pay. How do they do that each year? Think about it.

Much has been written about this non-novel idea. Wealthy students have advantages that make them - by far - stronger applicants. It's a self-selecting sample. You claim an AO told you but it is important to note that not one former AO - including the many who have written tell-all books - supports this claim.

"Need blind" is not the same as "need ignorant". There are plenty of “tells” or markers throughout an application that can point pretty firmly in one direction or the other as to whether the person likely applied or would need for FA (including parents' education, professions, and type of school) that don't even get past the biographical info.

Yes, the privileged class are easy to spot, especially on paper. That does not mean that there is a sneaky conspiracy to admit full pay over equally qualified students with need. You should not spread this misinformation as it may discourage students from applying or asking for financial aid when it will have no affect on their admissions decision.

No sneaky conspiracy at all. Not intended for FA families at all. I don't pretend to know anything about it.

For wealthy families, there's more than meets the eye in admissions. And, I don't pretend to understand EM. But it is rather interesting that the % of full pay stays around the same each year. Maybe WL do the heavy lifting there? Who knows. I'm sure they have a sophisticated way to do this so we never figure it out.

My takeaway: Just don't hide the wealth - we certainly aren't. And it worked out well for Kid1 into T20.

The bold part explicitly suggests a sneaky conspiracy. Need blind colleges are need blind in admissions as stated. Please stop with the misinformation.

Need-Blind Admissions Has Always Been a Lie: https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/the-need-blind-admissions-lie-exposed/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1287452
https://www.thedp.com/article/2022/01/upenn-not-need-blind-admissions

But this price-fixing cartel has been discussed here before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

Any other college counselors call out “need blind” as a farce?

Mark on YCBK’s last episode (new Penn policy on financial aid) went off and named schools which use home equity in asset calculation - as a way to “pretend” be need blind but actually offer uncompetitive financial aid packages? Was he hinting at this phenomenon?

You mean "pretend to meet full need" (as if home equity is not an asset, which is a different argument) not "pretend to be need blind".

This has NOTHING to do with whether they are need blind when making admissions decisions.

They are.

I believe that Early Decision (ED) tends to admit more full-pay students than those who require financial aid with npc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

My full pay kid was waitlisted at a school where she was at the 75% for grades and test scores. Didn’t seem to help her at all.

Did she ED? Was she an athlete?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

What does truly full pay mean? How would someone be fake full pay?

Our college counselor at one of the DC private told us explicitly that all need blind schools are actually somewhere on a spectrum of “need vision-impaired.” This was two years ago.

All of them not in this list: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission#Need-blind_for_resident_applicants

Anonymous wrote:all of them

it's much easier to get into ANY college if you are full pay

+1
Doughnut hole kids with the same scores have to shoot for in-state flagships or lower ranked schools where they can get merit aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

This is annoying because we are truly full pay but our zip and HS would never reflect it.

Anonymous wrote:I imagine they know from us bc my kid out down retired for both parents under the employment status.

We are retiring in 6 months. Our income during retirement (before taking any 401k/IRA mandatory withdrawals) will be upper 6 figures. Still have a kid in college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A T20 AO (retired/now in private college counseling practice) told me that AOs do look "favorably" on certain markers of wealth and that it's inevitable that a large number of successful applicants will always be wealthy and full pay. After all, half the class is full pay. How do they do that each year? Think about it.

Much has been written about this non-novel idea. Wealthy students have advantages that make them - by far - stronger applicants. It's a self-selecting sample. You claim an AO told you but it is important to note that not one former AO - including the many who have written tell-all books - supports this claim.

"Need blind" is not the same as "need ignorant". There are plenty of “tells” or markers throughout an application that can point pretty firmly in one direction or the other as to whether the person likely applied or would need for FA (including parents' education, professions, and type of school) that don't even get past the biographical info.

Yes, the privileged class are easy to spot, especially on paper. That does not mean that there is a sneaky conspiracy to admit full pay over equally qualified students with need. You should not spread this misinformation as it may discourage students from applying or asking for financial aid when it will have no affect on their admissions decision.

No sneaky conspiracy at all. Not intended for FA families at all. I don't pretend to know anything about it.

For wealthy families, there's more than meets the eye in admissions. And, I don't pretend to understand EM. But it is rather interesting that the % of full pay stays around the same each year. Maybe WL do the heavy lifting there? Who knows. I'm sure they have a sophisticated way to do this so we never figure it out.

My takeaway: Just don't hide the wealth - we certainly aren't. And it worked out well for Kid1 into T20.

The bold part explicitly suggests a sneaky conspiracy. Need blind colleges are need blind in admissions as stated. Please stop with the misinformation.

Need-Blind Admissions Has Always Been a Lie: https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/the-need-blind-admissions-lie-exposed/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1287452
https://www.thedp.com/article/2022/01/upenn-not-need-blind-admissions

But this price-fixing cartel has been discussed here before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

Any other college counselors call out “need blind” as a farce?

Mark on YCBK’s last episode (new Penn policy on financial aid) went off and named schools which use home equity in asset calculation - as a way to “pretend” be need blind but actually offer uncompetitive financial aid packages? Was he hinting at this phenomenon?

I imagine they know from us bc my kid out down retired for both parents under the employment status.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

Agree. And they know more about you than zip code and HS. It's why their admissions offices are so well funded with hundreds of employees.

Yup! I truly do not believe anywhere is fully "need blind". Fact is, colleges have a formula for how much "grants/aid" they will provide for each incoming freshman class. If anything, they'd prefer to err on the side of "we have more full pay kids than we needed". And if they end up with less one year, I bet they adjust the next year. Fact is someone paying $90K/year is helping to ensure there is more money for grants/merit for every other student. And no, no school is going to use their endowment to pay for everyone to attend for free. They are a business and function accordingly.

Agree. It’s a business. Not a charity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. People who deny this are kidding themselves. ED is wealthy kid affirmative action

Oh you again.

Didn’t we beat you down on this intentionally misleading point before?

Any student can apply ED if the Net Price Calculator give a price the feel is affordable. If the NPC is incorrect (which it can’t be by law) you are released from the ED agreement.

Please do not let misonformers like PP stop you from applying ED or applying for financial aid.

+10000000000

Anyone can apply. As long as you are willing/able to pay the amount the NPC says you can pay. For the last time, it is not anyone else's fault except your own if you are not willing to do that. And yup, I do agree if you don't have it fully saved already (without scrimping on your retirement, etc) then it might not be smart for you to pay $90K/year if they money can be better used elsewhere. But it's not the college's fault if you are not willing/able to pay.
Elite college is not something you are "guaranteed access to". Just like you are not guaranteed accees to a luxury car or flying business class to Europe for a month long luxury vacation. You have to plan and save for that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

Agree. And they know more about you than zip code and HS. It's why their admissions offices are so well funded with hundreds of employees.

Yup! I truly do not believe anywhere is fully "need blind". Fact is, colleges have a formula for how much "grants/aid" they will provide for each incoming freshman class. If anything, they'd prefer to err on the side of "we have more full pay kids than we needed". And if they end up with less one year, I bet they adjust the next year. Fact is someone paying $90K/year is helping to ensure there is more money for grants/merit for every other student. And no, no school is going to use their endowment to pay for everyone to attend for free. They are a business and function accordingly.