Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:52
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
And this is why schools like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Duke, and Northwestern prioritize “individual achievement, notoriety, success, or ranking” in non-academic areas.
These kids with some sort of fame, including an individual random “hobby” that will garner continued national recognition or achievement matter a lot more than a perfect scores and perfect grades.
A university wants successful accomplished and famous alumni.
A larger predictor of that is this exact type of individual drive/creativity and success in HS.
Test scores and grades do not get you there.
This is the entire point or reason behind holistic admissions.
Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:45
Subject: Re:If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are tons of kids who get into top colleges with the formula of:
Top grades in hardest tracks
Tippy top test scores
Enough ECs to pass muster as well rounded
This was me and most of my friends, who were all top 25% (and usually top 10%) at Ivy graduation.
Unless you and most of your friends went to ivies within the last 2 (maybe 3) years, your experience is not relevant to how college admissions is now.
Actually, this year and next year will be different from the last two years as well. College admissions has been in constant flux since the class of 2021 applied; no two years have been quite the same since then: Covid class '20 admissions was normal, then deferrals and WL movements went crazy due to COVID; post covid class '21 started TO, dealing with last years deferrals returning; not enough dorm space, new deferrals, and tons of WL movement; '22 TO continuing with tons of deferred kids taking back spots and shrinking the incoming class; '23 TO continues, but starts to claw back, with class sizes normalizing plus explosion of admissions for "alternate start" options like start abroad, other campuses, etc. (always had some of this but it went crazy after COVID as they struggled to get back to class size averages); '24 new AA Supreme court case, plus TO continues to revert in some schools; '25 legacy disappears in many schools coast to coast, schools still grapple with AA changes, TO continues to revert in even more schools -- essentially the rules for each school are different which changes kids lists and strategies yet again). All of this can change what kids try to highlight in their applications. Who knows what next year will look like?
Things will get more normalized when test scores are required again.
Trying to read the tea leaves without any frikking tea leaves has been difficult for the admissions committees.
I don't think test scores will be required again for outside of top 20 anytime soon.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:39
Subject: Re:If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are tons of kids who get into top colleges with the formula of:
Top grades in hardest tracks
Tippy top test scores
Enough ECs to pass muster as well rounded
This was me and most of my friends, who were all top 25% (and usually top 10%) at Ivy graduation.
Unless you and most of your friends went to ivies within the last 2 (maybe 3) years, your experience is not relevant to how college admissions is now.
Actually, this year and next year will be different from the last two years as well. College admissions has been in constant flux since the class of 2021 applied; no two years have been quite the same since then: Covid class '20 admissions was normal, then deferrals and WL movements went crazy due to COVID; post covid class '21 started TO, dealing with last years deferrals returning; not enough dorm space, new deferrals, and tons of WL movement; '22 TO continuing with tons of deferred kids taking back spots and shrinking the incoming class; '23 TO continues, but starts to claw back, with class sizes normalizing plus explosion of admissions for "alternate start" options like start abroad, other campuses, etc. (always had some of this but it went crazy after COVID as they struggled to get back to class size averages); '24 new AA Supreme court case, plus TO continues to revert in some schools; '25 legacy disappears in many schools coast to coast, schools still grapple with AA changes, TO continues to revert in even more schools -- essentially the rules for each school are different which changes kids lists and strategies yet again). All of this can change what kids try to highlight in their applications. Who knows what next year will look like?
Things will get more normalized when test scores are required again.
Trying to read the tea leaves without any frikking tea leaves has been difficult for the admissions committees.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:37
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What’s wrong with regular high school clubs and activities? Kids are kids and not every kid (or family) has the wherewithal to pursue a passion project or start a nonprofit or do groundbreaking research. I’m wondering when there will be a backlash against the new admissions metrics and what it will look like.
And what’s wrong with regular college or universities?
Good point. Many of chose to subject our kids to the gauntlet of admission to selective colleges. It’s a choice. I know people who opted out of the madness. There’s a lot to be said for opting out, sticking to the lesser known regional schools that admit 70%+ and calling it a day.
You're not "opting out" You were on the outside looking in and decided not to look anymore.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:34
Subject: Re:If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are tons of kids who get into top colleges with the formula of:
Top grades in hardest tracks
Tippy top test scores
Enough ECs to pass muster as well rounded
This was me and most of my friends, who were all top 25% (and usually top 10%) at Ivy graduation.
Unless you and most of your friends went to ivies within the last 2 (maybe 3) years, your experience is not relevant to how college admissions is now.
Maybe. But honestly someone who has a top 1% IQ and a top, say, 5% IQ is still going to do awesome at life if they end up at Vanderbilt or Boston College instead of Columbia or whatever.
You can train your kid to become a national fiddling champion to try to get some perceived advantage but in the end talent + discipline + EQ will result in positive life outcomes.
Anyway this is a temporary squeeze birth rates are declining so for those with young kids, it’s going to go back to being like the 90s and 00s again in another decade or so.
Competition for top schools will generally increase not decline.
The population cliff may not be what you think it is.
There is a huge third generation hispanic population that is going to flood the market, their parents are middle class and focused on their kids getting the education that they never got.
This is (combined with immigration) is going to be more than enough to counter the 1% shrinking of graduating class sizes.
The value of educational pedigree has only increased and the population of people seeking that pedigree will only increase.
Sure, a lot of lower tier colleges and universities will go out of business but the most selective schools will continue to be very selective.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:05
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Discussed by a former Vanderbilt AO here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/v6bdz7/the_type_of_ecs_i_wish_i_saw_more_of_as_a/
"There are ECs that are impressive and there are ECs that are memorable – and they aren’t always the same.
I’ve reviewed countless applications from debate champions, but only one from a girl who plays drums in a Led Zeppelin cover band. I’ve seen a lot of varsity tennis, but only one student who was a Pokémon card game champion.
Heck, when I applied to college, I focused my activities section on volunteering, debate, and school clubs while completely failing to mention fronting a sloppy punk rock band where we wrote songs, released an album, and played a bunch of shows.
I want you to broaden the scope of what you value as extracurricular engagement."
this guy seems extremely immature.
College admissions is a scam. There is no clear cut way that works for Ivy League. Think about who profits from this crazy athletics madness that we all buy into? Travel sports, competitions etc.. and from such a young age too. Kids miss out on their childhood and parents miss out on the time with their kids and family.. all in the name of college admissions..
lets face it, we are all sheep and don’t want to be left behind in this race to nowhere.
Agree. It pains me to see parents giving in to travel sports. The money alone. Money that could be put into a college fund. We’ve spent too much on kid activities ourselves, and I kick myself.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 12:05
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Discussed by a former Vanderbilt AO here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/v6bdz7/the_type_of_ecs_i_wish_i_saw_more_of_as_a/
"There are ECs that are impressive and there are ECs that are memorable – and they aren’t always the same.
I’ve reviewed countless applications from debate champions, but only one from a girl who plays drums in a Led Zeppelin cover band. I’ve seen a lot of varsity tennis, but only one student who was a Pokémon card game champion.
Heck, when I applied to college, I focused my activities section on volunteering, debate, and school clubs while completely failing to mention fronting a sloppy punk rock band where we wrote songs, released an album, and played a bunch of shows.
I want you to broaden the scope of what you value as extracurricular engagement."
this guy seems extremely immature.
College admissions is a scam. There is no clear cut way that works for Ivy League. Think about who profits from this crazy athletics madness that we all buy into? Travel sports, competitions etc.. and from such a young age too. Kids miss out on their childhood and parents miss out on the time with their kids and family.. all in the name of college admissions..
lets face it, we are all sheep and don’t want to be left behind in this race to nowhere.
Don't buy in. One of my kids refused the athletics madness (sports competitions).
Did great in the app process (many T20 admits). Had a very unique distinctive hobby though that took up a LOT of time.
Ask your kid what they like. Are they curious? Do they spend time watching videos on YouTube? Podcast?
Develop and nature those interests.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:59
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Discussed by a former Vanderbilt AO here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/v6bdz7/the_type_of_ecs_i_wish_i_saw_more_of_as_a/
"There are ECs that are impressive and there are ECs that are memorable – and they aren’t always the same.
I’ve reviewed countless applications from debate champions, but only one from a girl who plays drums in a Led Zeppelin cover band. I’ve seen a lot of varsity tennis, but only one student who was a Pokémon card game champion.
Heck, when I applied to college, I focused my activities section on volunteering, debate, and school clubs while completely failing to mention fronting a sloppy punk rock band where we wrote songs, released an album, and played a bunch of shows.
I want you to broaden the scope of what you value as extracurricular engagement."
this guy seems extremely immature.
College admissions is a scam. There is no clear cut way that works for Ivy League. Think about who profits from this crazy athletics madness that we all buy into? Travel sports, competitions etc.. and from such a young age too. Kids miss out on their childhood and parents miss out on the time with their kids and family.. all in the name of college admissions..
lets face it, we are all sheep and don’t want to be left behind in this race to nowhere.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:59
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Looks like the drive-by-insult troll has found this thread.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:49
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Discussed by a former Vanderbilt AO here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/v6bdz7/the_type_of_ecs_i_wish_i_saw_more_of_as_a/
"There are ECs that are impressive and there are ECs that are memorable – and they aren’t always the same.
I’ve reviewed countless applications from debate champions, but only one from a girl who plays drums in a Led Zeppelin cover band. I’ve seen a lot of varsity tennis, but only one student who was a Pokémon card game champion.
Heck, when I applied to college, I focused my activities section on volunteering, debate, and school clubs while completely failing to mention fronting a sloppy punk rock band where we wrote songs, released an album, and played a bunch of shows.
I want you to broaden the scope of what you value as extracurricular engagement."
this guy seems extremely immature.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:44
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
This sounds like a made up story based on what is largely true in admissions…what school?
The 2 kids in a "rock band" at our private got into EVERY T20 they applied to last year. Not top of class.
Our W high school has a few hundred varsity athletes. So yeah, in spite of all the work your kid puts in, they look just like every other kid at the school. It really irked me because DS put huge amounts of time and effort into his sport, while other seniors did not and sat the bench. Yet everyone puts the same entry in the common app.
JV and Varsity sports are the same line too, so unless a school looks closely, they won’t know if the applicant was playing JV or Varsity. I get the distinct feeling that the AOs really don’t give a sh*t about sports, even though we all know what they can teach.
Your students should do what they want to do. There is no longer a manic combination - like back in the day where Ivy men were always varsity athletes.
Unless you are a recruited athlete, there really is no distinction between all the other athletes. I don't think anyone even cares at all about a captain or not.
However, if you are a recruited athlete (a true recruited athlete) then your admissions process is a cake walk.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:42
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
*magic
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:41
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
This sounds like a made up story based on what is largely true in admissions…what school?
The 2 kids in a "rock band" at our private got into EVERY T20 they applied to last year. Not top of class.
Our W high school has a few hundred varsity athletes. So yeah, in spite of all the work your kid puts in, they look just like every other kid at the school. It really irked me because DS put huge amounts of time and effort into his sport, while other seniors did not and sat the bench. Yet everyone puts the same entry in the common app.
JV and Varsity sports are the same line too, so unless a school looks closely, they won’t know if the applicant was playing JV or Varsity. I get the distinct feeling that the AOs really don’t give a sh*t about sports, even though we all know what they can teach.
Your students should do what they want to do. There is no longer a manic combination - like back in the day where Ivy men were always varsity athletes.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:38
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Translation: we want to do everything to curb Asian population.
Anonymous
10/15/2024 11:38
Subject: If every kid is doing the same damn EC
Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:
How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement
- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you
- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better
- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you
How to get accepted by Ivies:
- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university
- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.
You get the idea...
Discussed by a former Vanderbilt AO here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/v6bdz7/the_type_of_ecs_i_wish_i_saw_more_of_as_a/
"There are ECs that are impressive and there are ECs that are memorable – and they aren’t always the same.
I’ve reviewed countless applications from debate champions, but only one from a girl who plays drums in a Led Zeppelin cover band. I’ve seen a lot of varsity tennis, but only one student who was a Pokémon card game champion.
Heck, when I applied to college, I focused my activities section on volunteering, debate, and school clubs while completely failing to mention fronting a sloppy punk rock band where we wrote songs, released an album, and played a bunch of shows.
I want you to broaden the scope of what you value as extracurricular engagement."