Anonymous wrote:You have to threaten to go to the police about it or up the chain to the Super bc if you don't the admin will hold the violence against the teacher as bad classroom management and they will just blame blame blame the teachers.

The police? Get ahold of yourself. Seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you posting here because you have a child with SNs and you want to know how to protect them?

Or are you assuming that the "violent child" has SNs and that's why you posting in this forum?

I’m assuming a 9 year old who is violent has some special needs. I think that’s a fair assumption, no?

Could be undiagnosed. Or could be abused at home. Or could be a psychopath. You have no way of knowing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In FCPS at least, the special ed classrooms and schools are full running waitlists. They can't move a child out of gen ed unless there is a place for him to go.

This is true and the other truth is that out of control children who are violent in ES are typically checked only by another kid who beats them bloody after they get fed up. That the parents understand. They understand and taken nothing seriously first. They do not consider using their savings or taking loans for proper assessments or for attorneys to force a better placement. They. Do. Not. Care. If your child is seriously hurt by theirs: they blame the county; the school admin; the teacher — and on some level the victim and their family for getting hurt, for not evading an attack.

It is what it is. The parents have enormous culpability because very few try their utmost to help their violent child. You wouldn’t have so many defensive moms here - not even on the special needs board, where the conversation is necessarily different - who clearly monitor threads and shriek about how it’s just not something they can fix. It takes a village, where their child is the village criminal, the school is the educator and law enforcement, and the parent of the violent kid are the village victims.

The better placements are *full*. No lawyer force a contract school to magically make room for a kid. They are allowed to turn down kids also, and frequently do. FCPS CSS classrooms are *full*. FCPS leaves kids in gen ed settings until they have a place to move them.

You sound really ignorant about the resources available for these kids.

Advocate for more contract schools and more self-contained public classrooms.

Anonymous wrote:In FCPS at least, the special ed classrooms and schools are full running waitlists. They can't move a child out of gen ed unless there is a place for him to go.

This is true and the other truth is that out of control children who are violent in ES are typically checked only by another kid who beats them bloody after they get fed up. That the parents understand. They understand and taken nothing seriously first. They do not consider using their savings or taking loans for proper assessments or for attorneys to force a better placement. They. Do. Not. Care. If your child is seriously hurt by theirs: they blame the county; the school admin; the teacher — and on some level the victim and their family for getting hurt, for not evading an attack.

It is what it is. The parents have enormous culpability because very few try their utmost to help their violent child. You wouldn’t have so many defensive moms here - not even on the special needs board, where the conversation is necessarily different - who clearly monitor threads and shriek about how it’s just not something they can fix. It takes a village, where their child is the village criminal, the school is the educator and law enforcement, and the parent of the violent kid are the village victims.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

Why would I tell you my kid's DX? You aren't a SN parent clearly.

Also - that doesn't mean there's been no action. Don't get me wrong, your kid being hit is completely unacceptable, but that doesn't mean the parents aren't doing anything.

That’s a great use of bold, you are exonerated! Once your kid attacks, it’s too late, and he’s caused damage to another child, as he clearly has done for years. Why is that ok? Why can’t you shoulder the responsibility you took on? Why? Why is a single-digit-aged child doing your job for you by saying no after he attacks?

In FCPS at least, the special ed classrooms and schools are full running waitlists. They can't move a child out of gen ed unless there is a place for him to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

No you don’t.
Maybe they set up an eligibility meeting, but it takes a month to set that up.
Maybe they instituted a new behavior plan and it’s not working.
Maybe they’re documenting new strategies to build a case for a different placement.
Maybe the kid is in the process of getting tested.

The school legally has to protect the child’s privacy, so there could be a whole kerfluffle behind the scenes and you wouldn’t know until next year when the kid is grouped with the special ed cluster. The process is s l o w.

All of the above should be done with the kid removed. There are 20-30 other kids who are instantly more important and need to be saved than that one kid as soon as he or she has had multiple instances of violence. The laws need to be changed. And maybe sped parents with kids who have real learning disabilities need to disavow these types of kids. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Ugh. Disavow? The kid’s five. He’s doing the best he can. Maybe you have a beef with his parents, his brain chemistry, or the TBI he got this past summer. You don’t disavow the kid.

Ugh. Do you think a violent kindergartner is worth more than every kid he attacks? The sting of shame might actually spur his parents do more to curb their child’s violence, to protect their own egos.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

Why would I tell you my kid's DX? You aren't a SN parent clearly.

Also - that doesn't mean there's been no action. Don't get me wrong, your kid being hit is completely unacceptable, but that doesn't mean the parents aren't doing anything.

It’s an anonymous forum and I’m trying to understand what kind of diagnosis would make a child violent or hit others.

Fetal alcohol syndrome. There is was a kindergarten kid in my DC’s school who only made it halfway through the year. He was quickly removed to a school better able to accommodate him.

I felt so bad for the kid. Life can be so very unfair sometimes.

ADHD does not equal violent. Such minimizing bs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

Why would I tell you my kid's DX? You aren't a SN parent clearly.

Also - that doesn't mean there's been no action. Don't get me wrong, your kid being hit is completely unacceptable, but that doesn't mean the parents aren't doing anything.

It’s an anonymous forum and I’m trying to understand what kind of diagnosis would make a child violent or hit others.

New poster here.

MOST COMMON PROFILE:
Usually it's a profile involving ADHD and ASD (most autism diagnoses usually includes inattention in some form). The patients are emotionally dysregulated and cannot control their emotions when something goes "wrong". With meds and executive functioning training for the ADHD and behavioral therapy for the ASD, the kids grow up to be functional adults. And by functional, it doesn't mean they're the ideal primary caregiver to children! But they can get jobs, marry, and have their spouse take care of their kids. I know several males like this in my social circle... who sometimes have problematic children. There are other diagnoses that can be at play, including very serious personality disorders that do not go away. In such cases, the adult had best not entangle other humans in their daily lives.


REASON IT CROPS UP IN ELEMENTARY:
1. It's a burden to diagnose kids young, because the formal psychological assessments are very detailed and complex, so at best a very young child receives a cursory examination and a tentative diagnosis, possibly not the right one;
2. Or the parents find the process too expensive and push it back for as long as they can; it's $5K for a full neuropsychological evaluation at a private practice, often not reimbursed by health insurance.
3. Or the parents aren't prepared to hear their child has issues and at least one of them pushes back, most often the father, who is usually not the primary parent, and who stays in denial for longer than the mother, if she's the primary parent. It's a classic scenario where each parent blames the other, and it's one of the reasons couples with children with special needs have a higher divorce risk.


ACTION TIME:
1. There are waiting lists to get a child evaluated by the right psychologist that can be 6 months to a year.
2. The school psychologist does not have the training or the time to do the full neuropsychological evaluation that lasts for 8 hours over 2 days. The school can perform shorter, ersatz assessments, but they won't be the official ones done by psychologists with PhDs in hospital settings or private practices, and they will not provide nearly as much information and insight. However, when it's urgent, it can act as placeholder, with a lengthier assessment used to confirm findings.
3. Even with a diagnosis and reports of violence, the school system can take a long time to find appropriate placement, because often special needs programs are FULL and there are no appropriate spots left; or again, because one or both parents are not on board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone wonder why the heck we have so many violent elementary aged students nowadays? There existed in the past, but it feels like in every school I hear of multiple kids who are destructive and dangerous. What has changed?

I’m an SN parent and I’ve spent 10+ yrs on the Kids with SN forum. I was reading it yesterday wondering the same thing. The first page is filled with variations on the same topic. So many kids are struggling and it’s coming out as violent behavior in the classroom. I was trying to remember if it was always this bad once school got underway but this year just seems overwhelmingly bad.

I'm a Special Education teacher and have a child with a disability. Schools have been quietly whittling away services and making the job impossible for the past 10 years or so. Fewer services and fewer teachers who can provide the existing services is a recipe for disaster. Each year feels a little worse than the one before because qualified people are not willing to take a job where they're underpaid and not respected.

+1 we’ve cut self-contained programs and are striving to have even students with significant needs in gen Ed 80% of the time. It’s not going well.

Ex-teacher and SN parent here. This tracks with my experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

No you don’t.
Maybe they set up an eligibility meeting, but it takes a month to set that up.
Maybe they instituted a new behavior plan and it’s not working.
Maybe they’re documenting new strategies to build a case for a different placement.
Maybe the kid is in the process of getting tested.

The school legally has to protect the child’s privacy, so there could be a whole kerfluffle behind the scenes and you wouldn’t know until next year when the kid is grouped with the special ed cluster. The process is s l o w.

All of the above should be done with the kid removed. There are 20-30 other kids who are instantly more important and need to be saved than that one kid as soon as he or she has had multiple instances of violence. The laws need to be changed. And maybe sped parents with kids who have real learning disabilities need to disavow these types of kids. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Yup the other kids matter too and teachers

Anonymous wrote:Can anyone tell me the result when they have called the Police on a violent child? Did the police take it seriously? Did it light a fire under the school?

Police don't help. And school DGAF.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. What people are failing to understand, is that the child may not be special needs or may not have all of the required paper work or assessments to have a diagnosis or an IEP. It is a long process in which could incorporate MANY people (psychologist, doctors, lawyers, special education department, parents, etc). Finding the right needs of the child will not happen with a flip of a switch. There is a lot of trial and error along the way. Does it mean that other children should not be kept safe in the classroom? Absolutely not. So what can you do as a parent on the other end of the child that may be hurting others? Sit in on the classrooms to observe behaviors not just of other children but of your child. What can your child do differently in the classroom? Maybe sit somewhere else? Maybe help this student less? or more? Hold a meeting with the admin team and come up with a game plan on how the school will keep your child safe in the classroom as it currently seems unsafe.

If you’re a teacher, and you’ve read the thread, you should know that this sounds like a pipe dream in 2024.

“ Hold a meeting with the admin team and come up with a game plan on how the school will keep your child safe in the classroom as it currently seems unsafe.”

I laughed at hold a meeting with admin-you can’t even get an admin on the phone at my kids school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You and the other parents need to become such a nuisance to the administration that the nuisance of actually dealing with the violent child is preferable for them.

Does this work?

It absolutely does. And after 1 email to the principal, feel free to go up the food chain to the superintendent or someone similar. Sometimes districts know a student needs an outplacement and it is expensive. Multiple parent complaints matter. Teacher and staff complaints literally mean nothing, admin either doesn't care what we think or their hands are tied. (some are worried about being "dinged" by the state for too many referrals)

Do you have school system knowledge? In my experience as a SN parent when advocating for my child, parent complaints don't matter either.

I happened to my daughter and after running in a wall, I started to file title 9 complaints with the county because the boy was only going after girls. My kid got her class moved, nothing happened with the boy/