Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

I don’t know if overrated is the word but I can say that I expected there to be a much higher correlation between the work I put into parenting and the end results. Before having kids I had aced every project I was ever assigned to. Lose weight? Learn Chinese? Whatever the project I worked out a system and put my nose to the grindstone, woke up early, whatever. But now that my kids are late twenties I realize the limits to how much you can influence another person with their own interests, desires etc. Looking around now it seems almost random. Lazy parents with great kids, parents who worked really hard and still weren’t able to shield their kids from problems etc. So there’s that.

I also expected to be better at parenting than I actually turned out to be. Some of that was undiagnosed and untreated anxiety that helped suck the joy out of parenting and kept me from being fun. I wish I had gotten more therapy sooner and dealt with more of my own stuff before having kids. But that biological clock kind of ensures that you start this project before you are ready or even understand the assignment.

I also thought I would have more close girlfriends and wouldn’t feel so at sea and alone as I made decisions for my family. Didn’t expect people to be so weirdly competitive and not to share information. I look back now and I am like “wow, that was hard!” Not coming from a functional family also made it much harder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly dislike parenting and motherhood and feel like an outlier.

I miss my hobbies, lazy weekends, no limitations career wise, carefree luxury travel and my former stomach and boobs.

But I also admit that it would be strange to not have a family and only grow old with my husband. I think life would get boring and I would feel like I’m missing something.

In my opinion the childfree life is superior until about 45 and then sh*t starts to get real. I have noticed this in childless couples. There’s also the problem that it gets more difficult to drink alcohol as you age and it would be weird to have so much free time and not be able to drink often.

I’ve also noticed that childfree women at work are very into their career and I can tell it’s one of the most important things to them. Which is fine but after having kids it’s definitely lower on my list and their obsession with work seems rather immature.

Ha this one makes me laugh because I don't agree with the first statement -- while there are things about motherhood I really dislike I actually really like being a mom and am glad I did it.

But otherwise I totally agree with everything here both good and bad. Even the thing about alcohol.

You just hit middle age and whether you have kids or not there's this feeling of "now what" but if you have kids at least you have something to answer that with. Kids can give your life a little shape. Freedom is awesome but there is a point at which being able to do whatever you want starts to feel meaningless. I think that's kind of why we had kids in the first place -- we were starting to feel bored with having the freedom to do whatever we wanted with our time and we wanted a bigger challenged and to enter the next phase of life.

OP here. But then your kids get older and they don’t need you or even necessarily like you. But you still love them. And it all still feels pretty meaningless. And you are like now what?

I’m at a snapshot in time. And maybe my feelings will change. I’m not sure my mom is glad she had me. She loves me but I constantly hear how disappointed she is in various ways. I don’t think I add very much to her life. I also have a child who is kind of on the spectrum…another little surprise life throws…so their love doesn’t necessarily look like what I thought love would look like and probably never will. It got worse as they got older. They were more outwardly loving when they were little.

I don’t know. I’m not really trying to convince anyone of anything…just reflecting on my own choices. Should have chosen a better title. I think I was still so young, even at 30, which sounds dumb because 30 year olds should be more mature…but I don’t think I could see then the pain I’d caused my own mother through the years or the way how she had hurt me had messed me up. And I just mean in the sort of typical dysfunctional family kinds of ways. Nothing crazy. I was so focused on just having a healthy baby and then all the little milestones. Then you turn around and they are leaving and it’s sort of like why did I do all of this? Also makes you aware of how old you are and how time has passed and you can’t go back. It’s all pretty trite stereotypical stuff, I guess.

But that’s what happens when you have an older child. It’s a good thing! They should be older and independent and not “need you” as much.

I’m not saying this to be mean but I think you could benefit from therapy. Just someone to talk through these feelings.

OP. Why is it a good thing for ME? I know it’s good for them. I mean not the being not so nice to me part—but hopefully that gets better. The spectrum stuff doesn’t help.

I guess it means I did a good job and unselfishly I agree with you. But that’s about them. Like I can say yay me for raising a kid who got into a good college and is going away. And I feel that. Of course I want their happiness. And I recognize that if they struggled with that it would be bad. I’m not saying like…wahhh it’s all about me. But the part that IS about me IS about me. And that part really sucks!

Basically as a kid the time you spend with your parents is all the beginning of your life until you start your “real” life. But half of my adult life has been being a parent. Then becoming independent and leaving is an end and there is no replacement unless you’re one of those people who harp on their kids to give them grandchildren (which is pretty unlikely for me and I would never pressure my kid that way).

I guess that’s part of my point. I’m supposed to be glad they’re leaving me? And pulling away? I’m glad they are not struggling with that because I love them. But again….not something I really started thinking about until a few years ago. And even then it was very theoretical until recently when I’m like damn…I’m going to have to get a dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

I don’t know if overrated is the word but I can say that I expected there to be a much higher correlation between the work I put into parenting and the end results. Before having kids I had aced every project I was ever assigned to. Lose weight? Learn Chinese? Whatever the project I worked out a system and put my nose to the grindstone, woke up early, whatever. But now that my kids are late twenties I realize the limits to how much you can influence another person with their own interests, desires etc. Looking around now it seems almost random. Lazy parents with great kids, parents who worked really hard and still weren’t able to shield their kids from problems etc. So there’s that.

I also expected to be better at parenting than I actually turned out to be. Some of that was undiagnosed and untreated anxiety that helped suck the joy out of parenting and kept me from being fun. I wish I had gotten more therapy sooner and dealt with more of my own stuff before having kids. But that biological clock kind of ensures that you start this project before you are ready or even understand the assignment.

I also thought I would have more close girlfriends and wouldn’t feel so at sea and alone as I made decisions for my family. Didn’t expect people to be so weirdly competitive and not to share information. I look back now and I am like “wow, that was hard!” Not coming from a functional family also made it much harder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

This is the way. I tell all my fence sitter friends to do it, but just have one. You get the experience of parenting but, assuming no special needs, you're playing on easy mode.

Easier for the parents but lonelier for the only child. No siblings to bond with and parents of onlys tend to be smothering to make up for the lack of siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

This is the way. I tell all my fence sitter friends to do it, but just have one. You get the experience of parenting but, assuming no special needs, you're playing on easy mode.

Easier for the parents but lonelier for the only child. No siblings to bond with and parents of onlys tend to be smothering to make up for the lack of siblings.

Pulling all of this data together, it would seem that siblings do not have a large impact on most characteristics we can measure. In the end, neither the deprived younger sibling idea nor the awkward only child one hold much water. Parents argue about these ideas across the internet, saying that having or lacking siblings is key to making your child the best they can be. The evidence disagrees. Your decision about how many children to have should be just that: your decision about what works best for your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

This is the way. I tell all my fence sitter friends to do it, but just have one. You get the experience of parenting but, assuming no special needs, you're playing on easy mode.

Anonymous wrote:There are no guarantees with children and no way to know ahead of time what is in store for you. We are still at the beginning of our parenting journey with a 5 yo and it is sometimes exhausting but also often joyful. I have also learned a lot so far from being a parent. My DH and I often talk about how these are the best years - we are truly enjoying them. It certainly will be nice when DD is more independent but we recognize we'll miss this stage.

I think the myth that OP has identified is that once you are past the little kid stage it is easy. My parents are still struggling with my failure to launch sibling. She finally has a job at age 30 but still lives at home. My DH has a reasonably close relationship with his parents but there is a lot of annoyance and frustration on both sides. Friends with adult children are delaying retirement because they want to make sure their kids can sustain themselves financially. That being said, I think the happiest I've seen anyone is my parents and in laws with their first grandchild. There is a reason many parents annoyingly pressure their kids to have children. They shouldn't do it, but it is totally in their interest because of the sheer joy grandchildren bring.to a person.

I think one factor that can help (but again no guarantees) is sticking with one child. Studies show women with one kid are happier than those with zero or multiple children, and that only children have better relationships with their parents (on average, again, no guarantees). It also takes away a lot of financial pressure.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses, everyone. I’m kind of shocked the discussion remained pretty civil! As for the person who said I might be depressed, well, that is probably true. I’m perimenopausal and about to be an empty nester with aging parents. So that feels about right…but half the women my age are in the same boat! It’s kind of hard to know how much is circumstance and how much is hormonal.

We can keep the discussion going but I think I’ve said all I had to say. It feels good to know that some people can relate. I’m pretty sure that even the most positive among you have had days when these kinds of thoughts have entered your mind.

I think ultimately, like someone said, hindsight is 20/20 so you don’t really know. And you don’t know what the future brings.

I’d really like to be a mom who could step back and not feel so involved and personally invested in my kid. It probably is healthier, and I would probably be in a less frustrated and anxious place right now if I could. But I was just never that kind of parent. But I’m trying to think of how to let go without feeling resentful and how to stop trying to solve my kid’s problems…basically how to be ok with them being gone, even knowing they may never be that loving little kid again (obviously not little but showing the love the way they used to).

My own mom always says she wouldn’t tolerate disrespect from her kids and would cut them off, and she has done that to me a few times. It’s a loving but very fraught relationship. But I could never bear it if my kid cut me out of their life, so I need to get ok with them just being how they are even if it’s not the relationship I imagined it would be.

I think it’s that kind of stuff that makes me look back and say….god…was it worth it? It is, of course, navel gazing, but that’s why I’m here blathering about it!

Have a good day! I’ll be NOT nagging my kid about packing up their clothes for college.

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

Anonymous wrote:LMAO- Having kids is overrated? That’s hilarious if no one had kids the entire human race would become extinct.

Anonymous wrote:Most people? I don’t think that’s true. Everyone I know, including myself, have loved raising kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dealing with kids and ageing parents has always been challenging, but modern American parenting, combined with modern American working culture, makes it all uniquely exhausting.

I found that the more I relaxed and didn’t get too involved in my kids’ lives, the better I was as a parent. Their problems are not my problems. I can provide advice and resources when called upon, but I shouldn’t feel their pains and joys too acutely. They are separate people. In the same way I should not impose too much of my burden of caring for elderly parents on them. I try to tell myself that the latter is a privilege too. It is hard, but it is beautiful too. Finding the right perspective is key.

+1

If the point of having kids is to maximize their SAT scores and college resumes, then the birthrate will continue to crater.

If the point of having kids is because humanity is good and we want to love them and make a family, maybe it will be higher, especially if connected to higher religious purpose.

But I'm not into forcing people to be religious or have children. I'm just saying that faith makes having kids worth it.

The point of having kids used to be that they made life easier, in both hunter-gatherer and agrarian cultures. Even into the 20th century kids were extra, unpaid farmhands and sometimes factory laborers in the west. In parts of the world they still are. I'm not knocking or criticizing this way of life, by the way. It has benefits the modern "make a perfect resume kid" doesn't have even for kids (well, perhaps except when they were factory laborers, that basically had no benefits). But families had lots of kids when lots of kids was good for the family as a whole.