Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please make sure you have your own retirement savings. So many women I know were SAHMs until divorce happened.

You should get half of his retirement savings in a divorce. The bigger issue would be lack of current income.

People live a long time. 1/2 retirement is not enough to live on/retire on for a woman in her 50s faced with entering the job market for the first time in over 25 years.

I have a parent in assisted living. You have no idea how expensive those places are--my mom can afford it on her own retirement + my dad's pension after he died. I can't imagine how women left stranded could make retirement/old age work...it's of epidemic proportions--elderly care and lack of housing and the astronomical expense. Americans are ill-prepared.

They only get 1/2 of what was earned during the marriage and since they can't really contribute much after the divorce they are screwed and working into their 70's.

This. They lost the magic of time (aka compounding returns) in their peak earning years and there's no amount of saving they can do to "catch up" when they re-enter the work force in their 50s.

If you were SAH from 2010 to today, you missed the greatest bull run in history caused by ZIRP. One we likely won't see again in our lifetimes because we are getting burned on inflation. If you get divorced in your 50s in 2027, there's a good chance your investments as you re-enter the workforce will see a "lost decade" of returns (similar to the 2000-2010 period).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminist Genx boomer stuff is dying out , it was a lie And caused the dusk income trap

Ever Gen Z I know have great jobs and education and have no intention of living off the dole... but they do expect H's to be 50/50. All the ones with children had H who took 3-6 months paternity and are equal partners in parenting.

Wrong country! We don't have the dole!

Yes some do.

USA, the land of dole and gore.

Anonymous wrote:Good lord. What the holy fk is wrong with you people.

Man offers to give foot-rub -> he has a foot fetish.
Man holds door open -> patriarchy!
Man desires comfortable life for spouse -> I don't need you to want something for me!
Man stays home to take care of kids -> You're a lazy ass
Man works his fingers to the bone -> You're a workaholic and have no time for me!
Man is masculine -> Toxic!
Man is feminine -> Too needy!
Man is in-between -> He's so...blah!

Then you wonder why most of the men around you have these hidden mental health issues.

- written by a non-binary person (so I can skate by without getting blamed for anything)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. Honestly, when you get married you’re agreeing to split your life with someone. That means you have to allow them to pursue what makes them happy. I would have been fine with a sahw if that’s the way it worked out. I’m so lucky it didn’t though. My wife dreaded the idea of being forced into a sahw role. She loves to work and has had a stellar career that has benefitted us and our kid in lots of ways:

1. Income responsibility isn’t placed solely on me. I don’t have to wake up at night wondering what happens if I lose my job.
2. We’ve been able to keep our kid in private school.
3. Outside of our careers we’ve been able to build a rental property business together and get our kid engaged and interested in business.
4. We’ll be retiring in our early 50’s.
5. We’ve got a lake property that we split time between there and home.
6. Our kid will graduate college with no debt.
7. When our kid graduates college we’ll be able to give them a house that they’ll own outright.

There’s just no way I could have done this by myself.

Sounds like low T.

Trust me, her T is fine!

And her A is low, the way it should be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. Honestly, when you get married you’re agreeing to split your life with someone. That means you have to allow them to pursue what makes them happy. I would have been fine with a sahw if that’s the way it worked out. I’m so lucky it didn’t though. My wife dreaded the idea of being forced into a sahw role. She loves to work and has had a stellar career that has benefitted us and our kid in lots of ways:

1. Income responsibility isn’t placed solely on me. I don’t have to wake up at night wondering what happens if I lose my job.
2. We’ve been able to keep our kid in private school.
3. Outside of our careers we’ve been able to build a rental property business together and get our kid engaged and interested in business.
4. We’ll be retiring in our early 50’s.
5. We’ve got a lake property that we split time between there and home.
6. Our kid will graduate college with no debt.
7. When our kid graduates college we’ll be able to give them a house that they’ll own outright.

There’s just no way I could have done this by myself.

Sounds like low T.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there women out there that have the same dream for their men? Because I don’t love going to the office every day, and would happily have the choice not to.

I am amazed at how old-fashioned Americans sense of gender roles are compared with my home country.

But men don't get pregnant and give birth. I think people really underestimate how big of a deal it is for women to have kids. I did, before I had them. Now I totally understand why a woman would want a man like described.

Motherhood is labor in a way fatherhood isn't. Unless that changes, these gender disparities will persist.

That is the point. In many UMC houses there is no disparity in this after birth. Marry a better quality of man and raise better quality men.

What makes it possible is money though. When families have less money, they wind up relying more heavily on the unpaid labor of women to make it work. UMC couples can create egalitarian marriages because they have enough income to solve any disparities with money, if necessary. And maybe some of these UMC families have female breadwinners, but most either have both parents who are earning well, or one very high earner.

Which means most of the families you are talking about have exactly what OP is talking about-- men whose wives *could* choose not to work, if they wanted or needed to. So these women could take an extended maternity leave, or take unpaid leave during pregnancy, if they felt it was needed, and it wouldn't somehow throw things all out if whack.

I also think that family support/help can make it easier to have an equal marriage, because it can relieve three pressure. If you knew there wasn't going to be that kind of support, it might be one even more important to have a higher income. Money makes equality more accessible in marriage.

That last sentence about the privilege money provides to relationships is true but judging by some of the anecdotes here it is also important to not marry an anti-feminist, status obsessed and/or controlling man. People seem more likely to rail against not working more than not marrying a toxic man and some social circles (for a variety of reasons) have more toxic men than others. The reason being, it is easier to make that split from the toxic man if you have a job. I'd advocate not falling for the toxic man in the first place and make your decisions based on more important reasons like finances or if that is assured, desires or the unexpected reasons that life throws at you with kids and opportunities.

This debate is pointless for people without the privilege of either choice but cautioning women against misogynistic red flags serves everyone because it is on the rise globally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminist Genx boomer stuff is dying out , it was a lie And caused the dusk income trap

Tell that to the GenX gray divorces I'm seeing with the SAHMs left with bread crumbs in their 50s-60s.

Trad wifes will see it in 20 years and then half to get their *sses out to compete with workers more than 1/2 their age for entry level jobs.

That’s weird. When you divorce you split all savings, assets and accounts 50/50.

Didn’t they save or invest in anything over the 20-25 years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there women out there that have the same dream for their men? Because I don’t love going to the office every day, and would happily have the choice not to.

I am amazed at how old-fashioned Americans sense of gender roles are compared with my home country.

But men don't get pregnant and give birth. I think people really underestimate how big of a deal it is for women to have kids. I did, before I had them. Now I totally understand why a woman would want a man like described.

Motherhood is labor in a way fatherhood isn't. Unless that changes, these gender disparities will persist.

That is the point. In many UMC houses there is no disparity in this after birth. Marry a better quality of man and raise better quality men.

What makes it possible is money though. When families have less money, they wind up relying more heavily on the unpaid labor of women to make it work. UMC couples can create egalitarian marriages because they have enough income to solve any disparities with money, if necessary. And maybe some of these UMC families have female breadwinners, but most either have both parents who are earning well, or one very high earner.

Which means most of the families you are talking about have exactly what OP is talking about-- men whose wives *could* choose not to work, if they wanted or needed to. So these women could take an extended maternity leave, or take unpaid leave during pregnancy, if they felt it was needed, and it wouldn't somehow throw things all out if whack.

I also think that family support/help can make it easier to have an equal marriage, because it can relieve three pressure. If you knew there wasn't going to be that kind of support, it might be one even more important to have a higher income. Money makes equality more accessible in marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminist Genx boomer stuff is dying out , it was a lie And caused the dusk income trap

Ever Gen Z I know have great jobs and education and have no intention of living off the dole... but they do expect H's to be 50/50. All the ones with children had H who took 3-6 months paternity and are equal partners in parenting.

Wrong country! We don't have the dole!

Yes some do.

Anonymous wrote:The feminist in me dies a little bit more each time I think about this, but I took 1 year off to focus on a kid's health issue and it turned into 10 years of SAHM because it just works so much better. Our lives are easier, the weekends are enjoyable, the kids thrive, my DH's career took off (because he could work late and travel whenever needed). DH never had a preference and assumed I'd want to pursue my successful career but of course he loves it now because of all the things it took off his plate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. Honestly, when you get married you’re agreeing to split your life with someone. That means you have to allow them to pursue what makes them happy. I would have been fine with a sahw if that’s the way it worked out. I’m so lucky it didn’t though. My wife dreaded the idea of being forced into a sahw role. She loves to work and has had a stellar career that has benefitted us and our kid in lots of ways:

1. Income responsibility isn’t placed solely on me. I don’t have to wake up at night wondering what happens if I lose my job.
2. We’ve been able to keep our kid in private school.
3. Outside of our careers we’ve been able to build a rental property business together and get our kid engaged and interested in business.
4. We’ll be retiring in our early 50’s.
5. We’ve got a lake property that we split time between there and home.
6. Our kid will graduate college with no debt.
7. When our kid graduates college we’ll be able to give them a house that they’ll own outright.

There’s just no way I could have done this by myself.

Sounds like low T.

Trust me, her T is fine!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there women out there that have the same dream for their men? Because I don’t love going to the office every day, and would happily have the choice not to.

I am amazed at how old-fashioned Americans sense of gender roles are compared with my home country.

+1 I would greet her when she comes home with favorite drink, I would make myself look good for her, I would have prepared dinner (knowing what foods she likes and avoiding anything she dislikes) and I would be DTF anytime, anywhere she wanted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please make sure you have your own retirement savings. So many women I know were SAHMs until divorce happened.

You should get half of his retirement savings in a divorce. The bigger issue would be lack of current income.

People live a long time. 1/2 retirement is not enough to live on/retire on for a woman in her 50s faced with entering the job market for the first time in over 25 years.

I have a parent in assisted living. You have no idea how expensive those places are--my mom can afford it on her own retirement + my dad's pension after he died. I can't imagine how women left stranded could make retirement/old age work...it's of epidemic proportions--elderly care and lack of housing and the astronomical expense. Americans are ill-prepared.

This. My mom retired in her mid-50s, and is divorced. Her current income consists of Social Security and a very small pension. She has moderate Alzheimer's and is not capable of living independently. We tried having her live with us and it was unsustainable, so we moved her to memory care, using her life savings to pay the nearly $8,000 per month cost. Now that her money's gone, we are applying for assistance from the state so that she can continue living in her current memory care. She's nearly 83 years old and has no health issues aside from the Alzheimer's so she could easily live like this for another decade. She just can't understand why I can't just upend my family and my career and devote myself to caring for her. Growing older in the US can be terrifying even if you plan for it - not planning for it at all and relying on someone else to provide for you is insane.